Christmas Leave 'I have kids'

[paintityellow]

Yes I know this comes up every year, but it's so bloody annoying. The Christmas leave list went around in September, with it being specified that priority for Christmas Day would be given to people who worked it last year.
Despite this we now have a couple of people really trying to pressure others to give up Christmas Day because 'I have kids'. One of these women has had the last 3 Christmas Days off, the other's kids are teenagers. One of the people they're trying to pressure wants to fly home to spend Christmas day with her parents, Another has no family in the area so also wants to travel home for Christmas. Both worked last year.
AIBU to find this attitude infuriating?

Of course they would. That wasn’t my meaning.

That reply incorrectly quoted you. It was supposed to be to Rosie.

Then I’m confused why you mentioned it!

Then these managers can be sued for discrimination.

yes to both and I would completely disagree. They might be able to count down but only with aids specifically designed for doing so e.g. an advent calendar AND if they are specifically told what the 'end' date signifies. They aren't able to individually look at, for example a normal calendar and work out that 25th December= Christmas day if it's wasn't labelled, or draw an inference that if they break up from school on Tuesday 20th then Christmas day will be on the following Monday without someone explicitly telling them this. Ffs adults lose all sense of time in the twixtmas week, but you expect a 3 year old (many of whom can't even read their own names) to 'know' an exact date?

If you took away the aids or put your own interpretation on them they wouldn't 'know' when Christmas is.

E.g if you got an advent calendar ending on 24th you could either celebrate Christmas on the 24th and state that the last chocolate is the biggest because that's christmas day, or celebrate on the 26th and say that you get a special individual chocolate on the 25th because that's the special last day before Christmas. Or say 25th is granny and grandads Christmas day and 26th is mummy and daddy's. Or 25 is the religious date and then 26th is 'present' Christmas. Or literally anything anyone with half a brain could make up - if YOU have any direct contact with very young children you should know they will believe anything - if they are fine with a grown man going all around the world within 24 hours and fitting down a chimney to deliver presents, having a workshop with elves and flying reindeer, an elf that watches them and reports back, etc. they'll probably accept that 'yes, sweetheart, yesterday was Sunday, today is Monday, Christmas is tomorrow!'

Ok reporting the post because I don't like the pilling on RG27. Making comments about intelligence is out of fucking order.

That was for @RosieGirl27 not you @FeverBeam apologies

... unless you book it off as annual leave then it’s fair game for any manager to allocate and most normal people will choose people with children

It appears that "normal" is shorthand here for "only those who agree with me", but no experienced managers I know do this - mainly because they're only too aware of the resentment it can cause in the workplace

Maybe they'd do it if everyone could be relied on to share, but unfortunately that concept isn't always popular with the entitled (who tend to shout loudest)

Yup, but it really enrages a lot of people here to see accommodations made for or grace given to parents and children. Some people are really stuck in the dark ages. Supporting mothers in the work force is becoming a priority for many successful companies for a reason.

Relevant comments have already been deleted by MNHQ
I reported others but they’ve done nothing so far

And yet it's fine for them to post ageist and sexist comments.

No that isn't normal at all for any decent manager. Any decent manager will treat all requests equally and allocate leave fairly and equitably. People without children are entitled to leave over Christmas as much as anyone else.

Big difference between supporting mothers in the workplace and prioritising them. The first is good, the second, no.

apparently so.

No the whole thing has gone too far IMO.

I was trying to say that being fair sometimes means treating people differently. Treating everyone the same isn’t always fair.

Supporting mothers in the workplace is very important. But you shouldn't need to step on other women to do so.

What has? Would you mind quoting the post you’re replying to? It makes it impossible to follow the thread if random comments just appear without any context.

Well, you don't have to be peaceful and quite but I am suggesting that on two national bank holidays when it seems everyone wants the right to have the time off- you shouldn't expect anything you might just fancy doing to be open. Have a party of you like, drive 200 miles, but get your petrol, food and drink in beforehand because those employees won't be working.

Totally agree.

Bravo. This is what sensible people do - not everyone is dramatic over it.

I'm sorry, @orangecandles, but that one about the grandma really made me giggle

I've heard about more "dead grandmas" than I can shake a stick at, sometimes from the same people who appeared to have an inexhaustible supply of them, and all of whom died at moments which just happened to suit some request

I'm in a profession where the shifts need to be covered 24/7 365.
In my place of work a list is put on the wall and everybody is given the opportunity to write down their preferred shifts (days/ nights/ day off) you have to say you will work either Xmas or new year. (But you aren't guaranteed wha you request) And then when the rota is written preferences are take into account but it is made clear that safe staffing is the priority and last year's rota will be looked at whe this year's is written.
People with children do not get priority for having it off. However, if someone was a single parent with no family/childcare for example then I'm sure a quiet word wth management would lead to a compromise. We are fairly fortunate that we are a culturally diverse team and we are always thankful to our colleagues that do not celebrate Xmas who always offer to work meaning less shifts for everyone else to cover.
We are also not allowed to book annual leave over Xmas or new year. Everyone must take their turn. If you take a job that requires Xmas working you are accepting that on accepting the role. If you go on to have kids you also have the opportunity to change your job if having Xmas off is that important. Remaining in post you are accepting that you may have to work it.
This all said, I'm single without kids and I offer to work nights every single Xmas. Having new year off is important to me as I have a commitment on new year's Day. My managers are supportive of this and we agree that I work Xmas.
It's the way it is.
School holidays should also not just be reserved for parents. What about those who want to spend time with nieces/ nephew's/ godchildren/ grandchildren. Do they not matter too? Of course they do.

Year on/Year off is the only fair system.

Amanda shouldn't have to work five Christmases in a row just because Sophie has children. Sophie's children are not employees and should not be used as a means for Sophie to wangle preferential treatment.

I agree. Prioritising parents for Christmas leave isn't fair. Ensuring all staff have their individual needs met (within reason) is.

Automatically assuming parents need Christmas leave is outrageous and unequitable.