Need some reassurance that I'm not crazy...

[ScaredMamaLondon]

Hello,
I am a Jewish mum of two small children.
I think I'm posting on here to get a reassurance that there are some good people in this world. I am terrified to be openly Jewish in this country at the moment and I am terrified for my children's future here. This week I was told by a nanny agency 'it will be very difficult to get a nanny to work for a jewish family'. The security patrolling makes me feel nauseous; my neighbour's son attends a jewish school and was kicked on the bus for his obviously jewish school uniform. We aren't obviously Jewish 'looking' - we are not religious but yet I don't feel at all safe. The pro-Palestinian rally today threw up pictures of burning stars of davids (the antizionism isn't antisemitism thing is basically an excuse for saying what you like about jews and getting away with it). Red paint splattered over local jewish primary schools (again if it's not antisemitism, what do we have to do with it) and on top of all of this, the sinking, dismal feeling that in Israel, the only place as a Jew I would imagine feeling safe, 1300+ civilians were massacred in their beds/kidnapped/gang raped/worse.

I feel sick. I feel we are utterly hated here and unsafe there.

When I see videos of TFL tube drivers joining in with palestinian chants as if its a football anthem and flags of Jihad being waved in London I do wonder if I've missed something here. At the recent vigil for the Israeli victims people stood in silence. Singing. Crying. Praying for peace. And today I witness the complete opposite. I didn't see one mention of peace. I only saw hatred.

Half my family are NHS doctors and surgeons. Teachers. Proud of our Jewishness and proud of our Britishness. Why is it as a Jewish person in the UK i feel so utterly isolated and depressed? Many clients and non jewish friends have sent wonderful messages of support so perhaps it is just the vocal minority but it's a scary one nonetheless. AIBU in thinking that life is completely terrifying right now?

I'm sorry you are going through this. There is no excuse for the behaviour you describe.
But being pro Palestine and /or criticising the Israeli Government is not the same as being anti Jewish or pro Hamas.
Sadly we seem to be less tolerant than we were but I think there is probably more anti Muslim sentiment in the West than anti semitism. I think both are abhorrent

'Support for Israel' is a complicated thing. It can mean supporting the existence of Jewish state; it can mean believing whether or not Israel should be there, it is there and has a right to exist; it can mean believing it is entitled to do anything to defend itself; it can mean believing there are limits to what it is entitled to do to defend itself; it can mean hating Palestinians and wanting them all gone (rare but not non-existent as a viewpoint); it can mean wanting a just solution for Israelis and Palestinians with everyone having a safe and stable home.

People need to understand that a lot of Jews down to my generation (in my 40s) and beyond have been brought up with the idea that 'Should anything happen, God forbid, Israel is there for you'. Now I wasn't brought up with that line of thinking, but you have to understand this is has been really drilled in to many of us. People don't generally believe 'God gave us Israel' or any religious reason... they see it as the one place free from persecution and therefore I would say quite a lot of Jews (wrongly in my opinion) feel that is entitled to do absolutely anything in the name of 'defending itself' and tend to minimise the impact on Palestinians. They don't feel that way because they inherently hate Muslims or Palestinians - I don't excuse their views but I also want people to understand that, as you can see from this thread, Jews have a strong sense of fear about persecution and a fear of losing Israel as a refuge from that.

Personally, I feel no need to leave the UK or anything like that on account of the actions of a few - our government and politicians are bending over backwards to protect us and condemn antisemitism and to my mind the only time to consider upping sticks is if you are living in a country where the powers that be are joining in and encouraging antisemitism, which I see no sign of here.

@ganondoof some people are clueless -

@Worddance I’ll get my rabbi (who is quite eminent) to call up Bibi and make sure he backs down shall I? He only lives a few houses up so I could even pop in 🤦‍♀️ in fact he does acknowledge the plight of the Palestinians in his weekly newsletters and I’m sure in synagogue (although I’m not a regular) too.

Your privilege is showing OP. You're living with the same fear most Muslims in UK have been living with for the last 20 years after 9/11. Some even before that. Yet if we complain we're told to go back to where we came from and stop being a sensitive snowflake, so we grin and bear it and constantly go on about how grateful we are to be 'British'. I'm so sorry you're scared and scared for your loved ones. No-one should have to live like that in a place they consider home. Trust me, as an Asian headscarf wearing Muslim in London I get it. But you're very clearly looking at this from a me me me pov. As someone who was in the protest and is surrounded by people who are 'pro-palestine' NO-ONE hates you. Infact we feel sorry for the Jewish people who are being painted with the same brush as the Israeli government/IDF. Again, I know exactly how that feels. What Hamas did was awful. Only a psycho would cheer it on. And I know some have from what the news loves to tell me. But you know what else I've seen? Israelis cheering on attacks on Palestinians. Israelis spitting on and talking awfully about the Palestinians as if theyre animals. I've been to Palestine. I've seen it firsthand. I've seen an IDF prick smack an old man to the ground because he wanted to go through the door. So while I feel sorry for you and I wouldn't wish this fear on anyone, I feel an even greater need to protest for the freedom of the Palestinian people. For the PALESTINIAN hostages (many of whom are children) to be released. For a little boy not to be killed by an IDF soldier just because he threw a stone at him.

What happened on October 7 was awful, but notice how Palestinians have no special date appointed to their trauma? It's because this has been their life for years. That one day (7 Oct) is their every day. So please, gain some more perspective and understand that while Israel and the Jewish people have the support of the most powerful countries and their governments behind them, the Palestinian people need us the public to scream and shout for them because the powers that be don't give a shit.

That’s a great idea! They’ll definitely turn up. This time. Like they’ve always done in the past.

So every single person who supports thr existence of the State of Israel wants "us" (who's us btw) to hate Jews? Why?

I am so sorry, I have been absolutely disgusted by the overt antisemitism witnessed over the past couple of weeks. I had no idea Jewish schools and temples needed security, why is this not widely reported?! Pretty sure if it was any other community it would be front page news and vast resources would be spent trying to fix it. We arrest people for saying women have vaginas but allow people to cheer for jihad, rip down photos of missing children and laugh at Jewish rape and murder? It's beyond belief. I'm indigenous British and even I don't feel I want to be here - I don't want to pay taxes to a country where Jews need armed security at their fucking schools.

I am furious that these marches are allowed - there may be some mind-numbingly stupid people who genuinely believe they're purely to show solidarity with Gazans and who are equally horrified by the attacks on Jews, but most don't seem to be even pretending anymore that they're promoting anything other than rampant antisemitism. Why not an anti-Hamas march? Or just a peace march where Jews, Muslims and everyone else can get together and lament the suffering of all those affected by Hamas' actions. I really hope that the tide will start to turn now people are becoming aware of how things are for Jewish communities; I'm not a huge Starmer fan but was very impressed by his unambiguous support for Israel, I really hope he doesn't backtrack as Labour genuinely standing strong against antisemitism gives a clear signal that it is not welcome in this country.

*October 7th.

At least get the date right.

Why is it not wildly reported that Jewish schools and temples need security? Probably the same reason it's not reported how many mosques have needed security throughout the years. But hey cares about those people right. Let's only give a shit about the people of a religion that aligns more with your values.

And no-one had time to protest against Hamas/ for the Jewish victims because as always, Israel was quick to attack the innocents in Palestine in the ugliest most disproportionate way.

I wanted to do that, or send a message to the local synagogue. I tried to find an email address or contact details for them, and found they don’t publish them. The likely reason for that is just awful.

Whataboutism at its finest.

The organisers of the Saturday march are such nice people, they only want peace and love for Palestinians and Jews...........(Sarcasm)

"The Friends of al-Aqsa is led by Leicester-based activist Ismael Patel. An outspoken supporter of the disgraced academic David Miller, who was sacked by Bristol University after being accused of antisemitism, Patel has visited Hamas’ leader Ismail Haniyeh in Gaza.

Patel was filmed at a rally in 2009 saying: “Hamas is no terrorist organisation.”
He added: “We are all Hamas,”.

Palestinian Forum for Britain, is led by Zaher Birawi, who met Haniyeh and other leaders of the terror group in Gaza in 2012. On a later visit, he was photographed with both Haniyeh and the former Hamas military chief Mahmoud Zahar, along with the former Respect MP George Galloway.

An extremist group that triggered fury after its members were filmed shouting 'jihad' at a pro-Palestine demonstration in London is led by a man who said Hamas were 'heroes' for killing Israelis.

Luqman Muqeem, the leader of Hazib ut-Tahrir said the Hamas attack on October 7 'made us all very, very happy'.

He described the terrorists as 'heroes' for having 'broken through the enemy lines of yahood (Jews)'.

Muqeem has shared several other shocking posts on his Instagram and Tiktok accounts, including mocking Jewish statehood and saying that their promised land is Jahanam, the Islamic name for hell.
In another post he appeared to endorse a quote from Imam Abu Haraira suggesting that the 'last hour' would come when the 'Muslims fight the Jews' and 'kill them'. "

I could go on and do the rest of the organisers of the march but I think just these two says enough. Personally I want all this of innocent people killing to stop on both sides. However to go on a march organisers by people like this is sick and not justifiable in anyway. All these people want is to start civil unrest and cause hurt to Jews. Half the people these marches know this and the other half are to blind to see the truth. Just sickening behaviour. Look at how gleefully most the people at Saturdays were, sick violence loving scum.

I admit that I hadn’t ever really researched Israel/Palestine as it seemed too big a task. I knew the basics and was maybe more inclined to have sympathy for Israel. After 7 October, I saw the responses and was gobsmacked. Instead of people taking to the streets demanding Hamas be brought to justice or to call for peace, people were out shouting revolting antisemitic abuse. I always wondered how the Holocaust actually occurred and now I know.

What got me most I think was when the horrific reports of brutality against children came out and the calls of “Prove it” started. People wanted pictures of it was just “usual” Israeli propaganda. I’ve seen calls for the really horrific footage (that Hamas themselves took and live-streamed in some cases) to be released to prove to pro-Palestinian factions what happened. I think that’s a bad idea as they wouldn’t believe it. The families, many of whom will never get their relatives back, owe the world nothing. I have a horrible feeling that there is nothing Israel/Jewish people can say that will be believed by too large sections of society.

I started looking at various sources to find out how things started and how we’ve ended up here. The narrative from the Pro-Palestine supporters doesn’t match history but that’s not going to stop them. The conditions in Gaza are horrendous. People live in poverty and suffer unimaginably. Why has Hamas not provided for them? If Hamas stopped using resources to attack Israel, it could ease the suffering of the people they’re meant to be governing. Instead of living in 5* hotels, maybe help your people.

If you condemn October 7th then caveat it with a “but”, you are effectively saying those people deserved it. Those children were not the Israeli government just like the dead children in Gaza are not Hamas. That is what the pro-Palestinian rallies are saying. Israeli deaths are justified because look what they’ve done. Look at the suffering they’ve inflicted. Instead of calling for Jihad, maybe call for Hamas to be ousted. They have caused untold suffering on their own people and yet are not held to the same standards people seem to expect from Israel. Hamas knew exactly what would happen after their attack so they have sacrificed every Palestinian life lost since October 7th.

OP, I’m so sorry that you’re experiencing this. I have no idea what it must be like but please know you are supported.

I'm sorry but the EVENING of the attacks in southern Israel there were THOUSANDS of muslims in the streets of London handing out sweets to children, with celebratory music on boomboxes outside the Israeli embassy.
They had plenty of time to celebrate Hamas' actions.
And, as I said above you tell me what would be a proportionate response to beheading babies, gang raping women until the pelvises shatter. Burning whole families in their beds. Whilst they help themselves to food from the fridge. Challah from last night's Friday night dinner. Honestly, would be happy to hear one.
Would it be to do the same back? (not possible - who is capable of that really apart from the select few) or send the same Iran sponsored missiles back? OBVIOUSLY NOT. Israel would attack with the full weight of their air force and Hamas knew this and did it anyway.
I'll say it again. Show your support to Palestinian civilians. But if your support doesn't extend to Israeli civilians too and indeed you celebrate the Israeli deaths - you are part of the problem, sorry.

What got me most I think was when the horrific reports of brutality against children came out and the calls of “Prove it” started. People wanted pictures of it was just “usual” Israeli propaganda. I’ve seen calls for the really horrific footage (that Hamas themselves took and live-streamed in some cases) to be released to prove to pro-Palestinian factions what happened. I think that’s a bad idea as they wouldn’t believe it. The families, many of whom will never get their relatives back, owe the world nothing. I have a horrible feeling that there is nothing Israel/Jewish people can say that will be believed by too large sections of society.

Also been pointed out that nobody at all called "prove it" when Hamas accused Israel of bombing the hospital, everyone just immediately accepted it as fact - and even when it was shown to be most likely false, the lack of apology was pretty deafening. It's fascinating really how keen people are to believe murderous terrorist organisations over Jews. (But they're definitely not anti-Semitic, of course).

“I’m not anti-Semitic but…” 🙄

I was on X and someone did a “Pics or it didn’t happen” on a thread. I took 10 seconds to find a link to a thread with multiple posts of Hamas’ own footage and got a “At last!” response. This was about 1 week after the attack. I mean, it was everywhere but this guy seemed to still be doubting what happened. They posted stuff on Telegram and TikTok, live-streamed their atrocities, posted their crimes on their victims Facebook pages FFS and still, STILL the response was “Free, free Palestine”. Hamas say Israel bombed a hospital killing 500 people and everywhere is calling for Israel to stop its war crimes and for their response to be proportionate. How about Hamas stop firing rockets over its civilian population?

Or stop firing rockets into Israel. They started doing this on the day of the pogrom. By last night it was over 7400 rockets so far. 200 Israelis have been misplaced and others been told they need to evacuate their homes. Total area that has been evacuated so far is the size of 4 London Boroughs.

Also the only reason Israel hasn't got as much damage is because they have the dome system. However that still doesn't stop all the missiles.

So idiot was posting the other day about poor Hamas only having pipe bombs to fire at Israel. This is the mentality and level of knowledge some posters and supporters have, ridiculous what they believe. Hamas uses pipe bombs but also have real rockets that can reach most of Israel. This is why the need to target there missile launchers.

"I’ve seen calls for the really horrific footage (that Hamas themselves took and live-streamed in some cases) to be released to prove to pro-Palestinian factions what happened. I think that’s a bad idea as they wouldn’t believe it."

Israel today has shown some of this footage to journalists because they felt they needed to "prove" what happened due to the extent of denial about this. From the descriptions, it's is absolutely horrific and I'm sure theres worse than that they could have shown. Shocking that they had to resort to this. I'm sure the deniers will either ignore this or just accuse Israel of faking the footage.

Not to mention we all saw some of the images as they were happening, it was all over Twitter. I'm not sure how anyone could support hamas after that.

Which values, sorry? Are you claiming Islam is at odds with British values?

I saw that. Absolutely horrendous they’ve had to do that. I’ve seen some of the pictures and I just can’t.

I used to work with someone about 15 years ago who had a Jewish friend. He’d been to visit him for the weekend and came back saying that Muslims hated Jews, wanted them dead and regaled various stories about young guys from both sides going out beating up guys from the other side. This was in polite Scotland. I was appalled and thought it was horrendous Islamophobia and told him so. Turns out it wasn’t so far from the truth.

@Nervousandexcitedd
I think you are on the wrong thread. Your values are not mine. And are not held by our democratically elected government.
I have never heard of an Israeli soldier ripping a baby's head off; tearing a foetus from the womb; tying a mother and child together to burn them alive; gang raping babies, and young women until their pelvises shattered
Have you realised they are still identifying body parts and that's why the number of hostages taken keeps changing.
The victims are unidentifiable.
Yes Palestinians live in terrible conditions and that is because all the aid given them (loads) is taken by Hamas.

This.

I think everyone can believe what they like but Hamas terrorists go-pro'ing the entire rampage is next level. It's like the Nazis with their photographs and lists.
I actually think the Israeli government did a press conference today where journalists watched 45mins of footage and there was no need for anyone to ask questions or comment at the end. The pride associated with the gang raping.

A story that did make me smile (I don't know if anyone read this) was about some Israeli grandma who was kept hostage in their house for TWENTY HOURS by a group of 5 terrorists (lol that this cowardice of tying up a grandma is some sort of freedom fight/thing to be proud of but ok, not the point). She decided that the Hamas guys were in a bad mood because they were hungry and then proceeded to bake them cookies and feed them and make small talk with them for the duration of the hostage. When the police finally arrived they shot all the terrorists who were stuffing themselves whilst glugging down Coke Zero and hadn't even notice the police had entered. What a bad ass grandma.