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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be ashamed of myself for shouting at DD?

101 replies

ChildWithAnxietyAshamedofMyself · 21/10/2023 11:42

DD is 9, and has been struggling with anxiety since Easter.

I have done everything I can to support her; changed the contact schedule with her dad to one that suits her better (from Fri to Sun to Sat to Mon) and therefore changed my work schedule to accommodate, I have had meetings with school to get as much put in place as we can in terms of in school support (and they have been brilliant, she’s allowed to go into class slightly early, allowed to leave slightly early at the end of the morning and at hometime, allowed to use the toilet when needed without asking (one of her anxieties) she just has to put a coloured card on her table which just has her name on, she’s been allowed to swap and change what clubs she goes to after school, choose who she sits by etc.) and school are prepared to help again and put more work in with her if/when needed, I’ve taken her to counselling organised by school, I’ve taken her out of out of school activities she said was causing her to feel scared, I’ve sat up at night with her when she’s woken me up worried about school or contact or anything the next day.

She is usually fine once she gets into something, she just says she doesn’t want to do it, and doesn’t want to try. Her dad and I have been apart since she was 18months old, divorced since she was 3 so it’s not a new situation for her there. She is fine once she gets to school and is in her classroom, academically she’s keeping up and doing fine, she just won’t go into her classroom given the option or onto the playground or come home from school – hence why she’s allowed in earlier and to leave earlier to prevent the embarrassment for her. She says she’s fine with her classmates, she has friends, has been invited to parties and is always saying she wants to go and if she does push herself to go she usually loves it. Same with Scouts which she was in until end of summer term, she would usually love it once there but would refuse to leave and cling to me. She is insisting that she's not being bullied and she's not afraid of anyone in particular.

Today has been a very bad day. My period started unexpectedly this morning so I have a headache and I had no pads. She refused to eat her breakfast she’d chosen (cocoa pops) so I changed it to toast which she also refused to eat. She then refused to go to her friend’s party. Drove all the way there with her refusing and me repeating “That’s fine but as you’ve told her you’re going and she’s expecting you we are taking the present to her”, got there and she refused to get out of the car so I went inside and explained to the host mum gave the present and we drove to her dads.

She refused to get out of the car, saying she didn’t want to go, I couldn’t make her and she wanted to just go home. Both her dad and I tried but gave up. Her dad said he’d come to ours later to try again so I had to text my manager to say I’d be starting work late.

Drove to the supermarket just to get pads, she moaned all the way round she was hungry so got her a pasta pot thing she insisted she wanted, didn’t have any cutlery on us so told her she’d have to wait until we got into the car.

On the way home she said she didn’t like the pasta she’d chosen having not opened it or eaten it and wanted mcdonalds instead, I said no we were going home to wait for her dad to pick her up. She moaned she wanted mcdonalds and to not go to dads then when I ignored her kicked the back of my seat.

I admit that I pulled into an empty carpark nearby, turned round and shouted at her that she was being ungrateful and she’d never get over her anxiety if she didn’t try things, that I was sick to death of spending money on things for her to then refuse to do it or for her to say she didn’t like what she’d insisted she wanted and she needed to start acting more grateful and trying to help herself or people would give up on her and her friends would stop inviting her to things because she always lets them down. And on and on and on I went.

I ranted for what seemed like ages, I didn’t swear, I don’t swear normally, but I was frustrated and more than a little upset with the morning we'd had an all my efforts being thrown in my face or so it felt.

We then drove home in silence and I walked into the house at home taking the shopping with me. Told her she could come in when she was ready.

She came in not long after me, slammed the car door shut and then stomped up to her room where I can hear her throwing her stuff around (she does this a lot) and shouting that she hates me.

I am ashamed of myself, I’m usually so calm and patient and loving towards her. I have suffered with anxiety in the past so I know how crippling it is, and is only 9 and learning.

I am so tired today, I was looking forward to finishing work and having a long hot bath and a glass of wine (I don’t drink when on my own with DD) but it’s now even less likely she’ll actually go to her dads and its my own fault.

You can tell me how awful I am, how ashamed I should be for shouting at a child with a mental health condition and how I must not like her or love her.

I do love her more than anything, which is why it breaks me she’s suffering.

OP posts:
CornedBeef451 · 21/10/2023 11:47

I'm sorry, that sounds so hard. I've no advice I'm afraid but try not to beat yourself up. You're doing your best in difficult circumstances. Flowers

HateMyRubbishBoss · 21/10/2023 11:51

tbh I don’t think I would be that patient for so long

don’t seem to work with her anyway; she might need a different approach

freespirit333 · 21/10/2023 11:51

You’re not horrible OP, you’re human. That would’ve infuriated me too. I have shouted way more than I’d like at my eldest DC especially (8 years old).

The most important thing - repair. Have a listen to Dr Martha if you get the chance, she has a podcast specifically on repairing after you’ve lost it. It’s really good. You apologise, you give space if they need it, you check in. I had to use it only last week.

ExtraOnions · 21/10/2023 11:58

What underpinning her anxiety ?

That’s how it started for us .. refusing to get out the car … go to events … adding extra things to make situations acceptable (leave early, different entrances etc). I understand how frustrating it is, and, in my frustrating I did the same as you.

Anyhow … she’s 17 now, recently diagnosed with ASD (after three years of various waiting lists and tests). Her anxiety got worse and worse, wheels really started to fall off in high school, terrible attendance, missed all of Y10 & Y11 … a LOT went on. She’s now on Sertraline, and at college full time.

What I would say is this … keep pushing for support and assessments, go to the GP, get a CAMHS referral, read up on Neurodiversity, start to treat “as if” - i wish someone had mentioned ASD to me when my daughter was in primary, but, because she had friends, and was not behind in education, and made eye contact .. nobody thought it was ASD (because people aren’t educated on it)

I’m not saying it is ASD, but I do know there will be an underlying reason … she didn’t really want to miss the party, she was fearful of going, question is why - and you may well not be the person who will be able to find that out

itsgettingweird · 21/10/2023 11:59

She kicked the back of your seat because you wouldn't give in to her having a mcdaonalds.

She doesn't need a McDonald's because she anxious. She was being bratty.

No problem with yelling at someone being bratty and risking life through dangerous temper tantrums in a car because they can't have a McDonald's.

As an aside anxious children actually need firm boundaries. So if you've been constantly giving in previously it won't have helped.

I'd ignore whinging whilst going round supermarkets and have stock phrases on repeat. "I know you're hungry. When we get home you can have xxxxx or yyyyyy" when you get home she gets x or y. Nothing else and nothing she says or does gets her something else.

It won't help her.

If she doesn't go to her dads which is contact time agreed on her terms she doesn't get an alternative. It's not unusual for anxiety to establish itself in controlling behaviours. But it won't help her to get that control. Removing the boundaries will cause more anxiety.

Get firm. Stay firm and work 9n the anxiety as a separate issue. Flowers

Anyflippingname · 21/10/2023 12:03

You sound like you have the patience of a Saint. Don't beat yourself up. I have no helpful advice but you do sound like a lovely mum.

As people have said upthread, some of this behaviour is flexing her muscles and not related to anxiety.

Crispautumn · 21/10/2023 12:03

I know it’s early in the thread but, have you considered something other than anxiety is going on OP? It sounds like she could be autistic.

Comedycook · 21/10/2023 12:07

She maybe struggling but she also needs to be aware that you are a human being with feelings too. She doesn't get to have everything her own way all the time. To be quite honest a lot of her behaviour sounds brattish rather than related to anxiety particularly the whining round the supermarket.

MrsSkylerWhite · 21/10/2023 12:08

Anyflippingname · Today 12:03

You sound like you have the patience of a Saint

This. We’re learning more and more about how harmful shouting at kids is but honestly, in your circumstances, I’d probably have done the same. Then felt guilty about it as well!
Move on. Don’t beat yourself up. (Pleased that it sounds her dad is helpful/understanding, too)

Biasquia · 21/10/2023 12:17

I see someone upthread asked but I wondered if ND might be an issue here.

I can completely understand how she danced on your last nerve. You can have a proper chat with her when things calm down but this isn’t just down to either one of you. Her behaviour, obviously due to the underlying anxiety in some spots and being a self centred 9 year old in other spots was extremely tough to deal with. Your outburst was very understandable in that context. Be kind to yourself, you are doing extremely well given the challenges you are facing.

IdaPolly · 21/10/2023 12:35

Sometimes people need to see they're driving someone round the bend.

happylittlesloth · 21/10/2023 12:38

Yanbu for losing your shit but yabu for losing jt for that long

nutbrownhare15 · 21/10/2023 12:41

In an ideal world you wouldn't have shouted however I can understand why you did and I don't think you are a bad mother you are a great mother having a bad day. As mentioned above, repair is key. And as long as dad can meet her emotional needs, I wouldn't necessarily give her the choice about contact as you need space to build up the reserves you need to be a great mum the rest of the time.

cansu · 21/10/2023 12:44

I think I would apologise for shouting and losing my temper but I would also think about and respond to some of her behaviour differently.
Eg she refused the party. I would have said that was fine but that she should recognise that her friends may be upset with her.

She refused to go to dad's and you need to go to work. This one would be non negotiable. If she continued to refuse there would be a sanction such as loss of a treat or a phone. You need to work and it pays the bills. If her dad is caring and kind she doesn't get to refuse this without a consequence.

I think that whilst it is important to help her and understand her anxiety, she does not get her own way all the time.

Worddance · 21/10/2023 12:48

She absolutely must go to her dad today, forcibly if necessary. You're at breaking point which won't help her in the long run at all.

RudsyFarmer · 21/10/2023 12:51

It’s an incredibly difficult situation and you got to the end of your tether.

InDubiousBattle · 21/10/2023 12:57

I would have shouted aswell. You had accommodated her an awful lot and she behaved really badly. Everything you said was true.

Berushni · 21/10/2023 13:01

Most of this isn't anxiety, it's bratty entitlement. She just wants her own way and for you, her dad, her teachers, everyone to accommodate it.

happylittlesloth · 21/10/2023 13:05

Have a chat with her now it's out your system. Apologise. Repair.

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 21/10/2023 13:08

Don't beat yourself up about it, OP. You're human and you will fuck up sometimes, we all do.

In your shoes, I would apologise for losing it and shouting at her. I would explain that that's not how I want to communicate with her and that I feel bad about losing control. But I would also explain what it was about her behaviour that led me to feel so frustrated.

It's fine for kids to know that we are human and that we overreact sometimes when our buttons are pressed. Reassure her that you love her and that you understand how her anxiety affects her, while being clear that her anxiety isn't just a free pass to behave as she likes without consideration for anyone else.

Whattodo112222 · 21/10/2023 13:13

Op you're not horrible. No judgement. You are exhausted and understandably at the end of your tether. We're not super human.

Mamma2017 · 21/10/2023 13:14

itsgettingweird · 21/10/2023 11:59

She kicked the back of your seat because you wouldn't give in to her having a mcdaonalds.

She doesn't need a McDonald's because she anxious. She was being bratty.

No problem with yelling at someone being bratty and risking life through dangerous temper tantrums in a car because they can't have a McDonald's.

As an aside anxious children actually need firm boundaries. So if you've been constantly giving in previously it won't have helped.

I'd ignore whinging whilst going round supermarkets and have stock phrases on repeat. "I know you're hungry. When we get home you can have xxxxx or yyyyyy" when you get home she gets x or y. Nothing else and nothing she says or does gets her something else.

It won't help her.

If she doesn't go to her dads which is contact time agreed on her terms she doesn't get an alternative. It's not unusual for anxiety to establish itself in controlling behaviours. But it won't help her to get that control. Removing the boundaries will cause more anxiety.

Get firm. Stay firm and work 9n the anxiety as a separate issue. Flowers

Absolutely this. Please don’t take it the wrong way OP but she has learnt that she gets her own way if she throws a strop and says she’s anxious. It’s learnt behaviour. Your experience of anxiety is probably why you worry about her and explains the pandering to her-I get where you are coming from. But the thing is she is learning she is “special” and needs to be treated differently to everyone else and that she should get her own way all the time for this reason. Its really damaging in the long run.
It’s totally normally for anyone to have some anxiety going to parties, starting class etc and the only way we deal with that and lessen it is by keep doing it time and time again. You learn there’s nothing to be afraid of by doing it. By making all these adjustments she is learning also that fear is to be avoided at all cost and adaptions must be made to avoid what is normal nervousness. The more she avoids fear the more fearful she becomes-going through life her anxiety will get worse!
You should not be ashamed at all for your outburst- it’s understandable. but I think a sit down with her to explain things to her that it’s normal to be nervous and this gets better when you face things- then some very firm boundaries in place would be the way forward.
eg- if she won’t eat what reasonable offerings you make for dinner (a couple of options you know she likes) then she doesn’t get dinner, simple.
eg She starts class with everyone else and finishes same time too- heap the praise on when she does it.
She’s running rings around you and learning to manipulate I don’t doubt she’s anxious but I think it’s being reinforced with a label and being made worse.

Bbq1 · 21/10/2023 13:15

Sounds awful, Op. I am very patient but God that would have pushed me to the limit of it because it was literally one thing after another with her. Some of it like refusing the pasta she chose and kicking your seat is downright nasty.

All2Well · 21/10/2023 13:19

Before you know for definite that it's not just a case of her testing boundaries and being manipulative, I'd push for an SEN assessment.

Have you heard of Pathological Demand Avoidance? Can also be referred to as Persistant Drive for Autonomy.

I have it (and combined type ADHD), it's a form of Neurodiversity and with me wasn't diagnosed until adulthood. What I was diagnosed with as a child was Generalised Anxiety and Separation Anxiety/Phobia. PDA causes extreme anxiety around "demands" which can be anything from leaving the house, to wearing clothes, to eating food. PDA children can be seen as naughty and manipulative by unaware adults and a very careful management plan and approach is needed as the behaviour is always driven by intense anxiety.

I can't describe the paralysing fear and anxiety I feel each day having to make myself go to work, having to meet my manager, having to go on a family holiday etc. For me transitions are very difficult so going between home and school as a child would leave me vomiting, kicking, crying hysterically, trying to throw myself into traffic or run away, feining illness...allsorts of extreme behaviour but I was genuinely a very "good" child and would settle in class until there was a demand I couldn't cope with (mental maths, getting changed for PE etc). Even as an adult I can want to go to a social event then the anxiety sets in and I might even be able to force myself to get ready, get in the car, drive there etc despite feeling like I'd rather die and then at the last minute back out, or walk in stay for 2 minutes then leave. I recognise some of myself as a child in what you describe.

MustbeFeverTree · 21/10/2023 13:21

She's got a whole lot of adults from parents to school staff dancing to her tune because she's got "anxiety." And then other posters make excuses by suggesting she's got ASD.

What she needs is some boundaries at home and to be treated like all the other kids at school.

If she doesn't eat her chosen breakfast, fine she can have fruit. If she's hungry when you're out she can wait until you're home. If she wants the loo at school, she can put her hand up and ask like every other child. She can also enter the classroom with everyone else.

I'd shout at any kid who kicked the back of my seat, so you did her a favour as she needs to learn not to piss other people off.