To be ashamed of myself for shouting at DD?

[ChildWithAnxietyAshamedofMyself]

DD is 9, and has been struggling with anxiety since Easter.

I have done everything I can to support her; changed the contact schedule with her dad to one that suits her better (from Fri to Sun to Sat to Mon) and therefore changed my work schedule to accommodate, I have had meetings with school to get as much put in place as we can in terms of in school support (and they have been brilliant, she’s allowed to go into class slightly early, allowed to leave slightly early at the end of the morning and at hometime, allowed to use the toilet when needed without asking (one of her anxieties) she just has to put a coloured card on her table which just has her name on, she’s been allowed to swap and change what clubs she goes to after school, choose who she sits by etc.) and school are prepared to help again and put more work in with her if/when needed, I’ve taken her to counselling organised by school, I’ve taken her out of out of school activities she said was causing her to feel scared, I’ve sat up at night with her when she’s woken me up worried about school or contact or anything the next day.

She is usually fine once she gets into something, she just says she doesn’t want to do it, and doesn’t want to try. Her dad and I have been apart since she was 18months old, divorced since she was 3 so it’s not a new situation for her there. She is fine once she gets to school and is in her classroom, academically she’s keeping up and doing fine, she just won’t go into her classroom given the option or onto the playground or come home from school – hence why she’s allowed in earlier and to leave earlier to prevent the embarrassment for her. She says she’s fine with her classmates, she has friends, has been invited to parties and is always saying she wants to go and if she does push herself to go she usually loves it. Same with Scouts which she was in until end of summer term, she would usually love it once there but would refuse to leave and cling to me. She is insisting that she's not being bullied and she's not afraid of anyone in particular.

Today has been a very bad day. My period started unexpectedly this morning so I have a headache and I had no pads. She refused to eat her breakfast she’d chosen (cocoa pops) so I changed it to toast which she also refused to eat. She then refused to go to her friend’s party. Drove all the way there with her refusing and me repeating “That’s fine but as you’ve told her you’re going and she’s expecting you we are taking the present to her”, got there and she refused to get out of the car so I went inside and explained to the host mum gave the present and we drove to her dads.

She refused to get out of the car, saying she didn’t want to go, I couldn’t make her and she wanted to just go home. Both her dad and I tried but gave up. Her dad said he’d come to ours later to try again so I had to text my manager to say I’d be starting work late.

Drove to the supermarket just to get pads, she moaned all the way round she was hungry so got her a pasta pot thing she insisted she wanted, didn’t have any cutlery on us so told her she’d have to wait until we got into the car.

On the way home she said she didn’t like the pasta she’d chosen having not opened it or eaten it and wanted mcdonalds instead, I said no we were going home to wait for her dad to pick her up. She moaned she wanted mcdonalds and to not go to dads then when I ignored her kicked the back of my seat.

I admit that I pulled into an empty carpark nearby, turned round and shouted at her that she was being ungrateful and she’d never get over her anxiety if she didn’t try things, that I was sick to death of spending money on things for her to then refuse to do it or for her to say she didn’t like what she’d insisted she wanted and she needed to start acting more grateful and trying to help herself or people would give up on her and her friends would stop inviting her to things because she always lets them down. And on and on and on I went.

I ranted for what seemed like ages, I didn’t swear, I don’t swear normally, but I was frustrated and more than a little upset with the morning we'd had an all my efforts being thrown in my face or so it felt.

We then drove home in silence and I walked into the house at home taking the shopping with me. Told her she could come in when she was ready.

She came in not long after me, slammed the car door shut and then stomped up to her room where I can hear her throwing her stuff around (she does this a lot) and shouting that she hates me.

I am ashamed of myself, I’m usually so calm and patient and loving towards her. I have suffered with anxiety in the past so I know how crippling it is, and is only 9 and learning.

I am so tired today, I was looking forward to finishing work and having a long hot bath and a glass of wine (I don’t drink when on my own with DD) but it’s now even less likely she’ll actually go to her dads and its my own fault.

You can tell me how awful I am, how ashamed I should be for shouting at a child with a mental health condition and how I must not like her or love her.

I do love her more than anything, which is why it breaks me she’s suffering.

She's got a whole lot of adults from parents to school staff dancing to her tune because she's got "anxiety." And then other posters make excuses by suggesting she's got ASD.

Autism is never an excuse, but it can be an explanation.

Those of us with lots of experience, either from parenting ND children, being ND ourselves, or both (usually both) can spot the subtle signs pretty easily. Anxiety is one.

I see people are objecting to all the “control” this girl wields. Has it never occurred to you that anxious people desire control to keep their anxiety in check?

She sounds a lot like my dd except for she has no issues at school and in fact is the star pupil. The teachers are always a bit horrified when I suggest that she might have some issues. (I also suspect some kind of neurodiversity). The meltdowns, the irritating behaviour etc all sound very familiar. I do lose it at her too and felt awful as the other day she was bashing around and slamming the bathroom door and I shouted “what’s wrong with you?” And she got upset as she said that’s something she always thinks about herself. I felt terrible and apologises. I often shout at her to shut up too when she’s shouting at us all. We are only human and it’s really really hard. You sound like a really good mum, I think your daughter will be ok. Good luck

My daughter was very similar. Star pupil, immaculate behaviour at school. They were horrified when I informed them she was on the waiting list for an autism assessment. And she was. In the later years of primary school her traits became more obvious and the school started to believe the diagnosis.

OP. First off all, you did nothing wrong..

My son. Has complex special needs related to early childhood trauma. Meltdowns due to anxiety are fine, but being rude is not.

Having anxiety does not mean she gets her own way all the time. I struggle with discipline because my 12 yo used to be extremely violent with me and my home. I have PTSD from some really awful years parenting. Now though that things have calmed down with treatment I am being stricter.

She can struggle but she needs to take responsibility for her commitments and choices.

I remind my son now that when he's an adult everyone has their stuff. No one is going to cater to him because he's had a lot to deal with. He needs to learn to manage his emotions.

I am extremely patient as well and honestly, sometimes that patience hasn't served either of us.

Kids need boundaries. Also if she is safe and looked after at her Dad's then she goes to her dad's. She doesn't get to decide that.

If she stays home she can entertain herself. No TV or computer.

I am awful at this! I say this from someone who needs to take my own advice more often. 😉

She is not demanding at school oddly, apart from the anxiety which school are helping with which came about from school refusal she;s generally pretty quiet at school, has friends, keeps her head down and gets on with it, there are literally no issues with her in the classroom and she never gets upset when others get certificates

The Autistic Girls network presented a white paper called ‘Keeping it all inside’ because this is how ASD girls present. Quiet, hardworking, keeps her head down. She ‘keeps her head down’ to avoid being noticed.

Them they melt down at home in the evenings and weekends. Because they can’t mask and hold it together anymore.

She’s refusing to go to school because she’s overwhelmed by a NT environment. It won’t go away until it’s sorted. Forcing her in will ultimately result in PTSD. As it does in ASD girls.

I do genuinely believe she has anxiety, but I do think today most of it was pushing the boundaries.

The fact you recognise this will really help your DD.

It's not easy. You sound like you're doing a great job and your DD will come out the other side of this.

Don't forget at 9yo hormones could be playing a part too - just to add to the mix

Yes they do. Most posters here are recognising that.

But most also are pointing out and know that firm boundaries will help her feel more in control.

Most people feel anxious and out of control when they aren't really sure what they can and can't do. It's human nature.

Without wanting to be too harsh… she doesn’t sound anxious, she sounds like a spoilt brat.

https://autisticgirlsnetwork.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/Keeping-it-all-inside.pdf

Read this.

I do genuinely believe she has anxiety, but I do think today most of it was pushing the boundaries.

And again: The first visible of symptom of ASD in girls is often anxiety. More often than not. They present at a young age ( my dd presented at 9, although previous behaviour suggested it). They are incorrectly diagnosed with anxiety but are actually ASD. They are not ‘bratty’ as suggested on here.

The paper I’ve linked to talks about situational mutism. This is why she has the cards in class. She can’t talk in those situations. Not that she doesn’t want to, or she’s being awkward. She’s too overwhelmed.

Some of the comments on here are horrible. Your daughter needs a diagnosis and proper support. If l had my time again I’d have put my quiet anxious hardworking daughter in a special school. Her overwhelmed ND brain couldn’t cope in an NT environment. She held it together until A level and then fell apart. All these quiet anxious girls do this. Some fall apart at year 7, some in years 10 or 11 ( the majority) and some at A level or university,

Ignore the ‘bratty’ ‘entitled’ comments on here. She’’s a distressed overwhelmed student. Take action now before she starts refusing to go to school more. Because that’s what they do, even though they want to go.

@Primproperpenny
My friends eldest claimed anxiety from about 13-17, wouldn't go in to a shop, needed ferried everywhere then surprisingly she's now getting the bus to college, has a pt job and takes driving lessons and never mentions anxiety anymore!
Seems she's just lazy and manipulative when it suits her, even got to the point of a therapist and her pushing for an autism diagnosis, therapist didn't agree and now she's seemingly recovered.
Not every poor behaviour needs a diagnosis.

I'm not a shouter and I'd never advocate for it. That said, I'm assume you've been doing the very gentle approach for all this time and that's not working. So, I don't blame you for letting it all out! Especially with the way she's acting and then adding in your period hormones. Cut yourself some slack here. I do think we can pander to kids anxieties too much sometimes and sometimes you just need to say "Absolutely not, we're not going down this road" and let them know how it's effecting you. Anxiety isn't a license to have a horrible attitude all the time. (I say this as a sufferer!)

You have a lot on your plate, OP. You're doing the best you can for your DD and you need to give yourself a break as much as possible. It's hard being the only adult in the room sometimes.

Did she claim anxiety at 9 though. It’s the early presentation that’s the key.

You sound so sympathetic to anxiety problems. No consideration of hormones and adolescent angst. And just because it’s gone now doesn’t mean it won’t come back.

On the way home she said she didn’t like the pasta she’d chosen having not opened it or eaten it and wanted mcdonalds instead, I said no we were going home to wait for her dad to pick her up. She moaned she wanted mcdonalds and to not go to dads then when I ignored her kicked the back of my seat.

Shes using her anxiety so you'll carry on making accommodations for her and making her feel special by giving what she wants.

When she doesn't want to go somewhere, or doesn't want to eat something, dont keep trying with her. Leave it. No extra attention or options.
She doesn't go or doesn't eat if she doesn't want to.
Stop bending over backwards, shes expecting too much.

Of course you try to help with anxieties but making too many accommodations will mean that's what she'll keep demanding in order to feel good.

Where does anxiety end and entitlement begin? Also I was a teacher in ASN for several years. After a while other pupils will get tired of her special privileges and begin to withdraw their friendship, they view it as unfair after a while.

On the way home she said she didn’t like the pasta she’d chosen having not opened it or eaten it and wanted mcdonalds instead, I said no we were going home to wait for her dad to pick her up. She moaned she wanted mcdonalds and to not go to dads then when I ignored her kicked the back of my seat.

Nd’s struggle with transition. She’d been taken into a supermarket, then was transitioning to her dads. Even if she wanted to go she would still struggle. She needs to be kept calm prior to handover.

Bet you were a great teacher. It’s attitudes like yours that broke my dd.

I was a teacher for 25 years. I never thought like you.

I have no advice but Lordy, as has been said many times about you, you do have the patience of a saint and I don’t think you could possibly do anything more to help her. Rightly or wrongly I would probably have shouted at her long before now, you’re human, give yourself a break. If you’ve not done it before it might make her think a little about her behaviour.

Wow these posts are horrible

No one has been horrible to the OP or her DD.

We're suggesting that stopping pandering to her "anxiety" and setting some boundaries will be beneficial to both of them in the short and long term.

I cringe at the eagerness with which many on MN rush to label girls as having "mental health" problems or SEN, ASD or - the latest fad - ADHD.

Do you have ND daughters to base your experience on? Do you really think people want their children to be ASD?!

It's important you get some mental health support for yourself

Young minds have a parents helpline x

Some of the comments on here have been awful. As the parent of an anxious ASD girl (now diagnosed), I went through all this when she was younger.. she’s “spoiled” she needs “stronger boundaries” are has “behavioural problems” etc etc etc.
I tried to parent based on thier judgments, and ended up with a depressed “school refuser”, having panic attacks, threatening self harm.. who didn’t leave her room for about 6 months, who didn’t talk to me, wash, shower, engage or anything else. Also trauma from being forced into school.
Now, with the correct diagnosis, support (and medication), she’s back in college and thriving.
I wish I had explored ASD being at the heart of this years earlier.
Another fan of the Autistic Girls Network, and “not ok in school”

Many ill-informed opinions on this thread, by people with zero experience

I cringe at the eagerness with which many on MN rush to label girls as having "mental health" problems or SEN, ASD or - the latest fad - ADHD.

The only “eager” people are the ones with lived experience, who know what they’re talking about.

FFS, the ableism on Mumsnet, man…

Many ill-informed opinions on this thread, by people with zero experience

Christ yeah isn’t there?!

That Dd is clearly ASD

Anxiety✔️
Mutism✔️
Angel at school, meltdown at home✔️
Refused to go to party-overwhelm, transition, peopled out✔️
EBSA✔️
Awkward/overwhelmed in supermarket. Massive sensory environment✔️
Doesnt want to see dad even though she does, transition, anticipatory anxiety✔️

Shes not awkward, or entitled or bratty. She’s seriously struggling. Ticks just about every box for female presentation of ASD.

Been through almost identical experiences. Mutism,( termed awkward🙄), achool refusal, meltdowns, transitions, sensory overload. This could be my dd. We thought she was difficult, awkward, and everything else. But she wasn’t. She was on the spectrum. Why do people dismiss this? And mine also ended in self harm when we tried to push her back to school. It’s what ASD girls do😢

To go to a party, then refuse, then a supermarket, then home, then to dad would have blown my DD’s mind. One of those things with plenty of warning was all she’d manage.

And the most worrying was the ASN teacher who didn’t get the whole showing the card thing😲 saying people will get sick of it.

The card thing is driven by mutism. And she’s a specialist teacher🤦🏽‍♀️