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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Putting house into trust to avoid care home fees

226 replies

Winterday1991 · 18/10/2023 07:15

A friend mentioned that her parents had put their property into trust to avoid potential care home fees liability. Is this as simple as she suggests? Would this not be classed as deprivation of assets by the council?

OP posts:
Velvian · 18/10/2023 07:19

I work in this area, in our LA, it would only be pursued if the person transferring the property had care needs (was receiving care) at the time of the transfer.

ExtraOnions · 18/10/2023 07:19

Depends how long before any care was needed, it was done

it needs to be a number of years (I think 5 … though someone will know more).

We are going through this now, my parents house can’t be used as an “assets” on the Council calculation, as my brother (who is over 60), has lived there for 5 years.

Pushkinini · 18/10/2023 07:21

My DH did this before he died 25 years ago. My understanding is that his half of the house is in trust and DM's half is not. They were tenants in common.

As you can't sell half a house, our solicitor told us that DM cannot be forced to sell while she is still living in it. However, I suspect that should she need care, once she is gone, the council will come looking for payment from the half that isn't in trust.

Pushkinini · 18/10/2023 07:22

Not DH, he's still here. DF!

GreenwichOrTwicks · 18/10/2023 07:27

I hope those who are trying to get free housing and care at the expense of others are not also complaining about the lack of public services. Really disgusting.

Ginmonkeyagain · 18/10/2023 07:28

Well exactly. Why do some people think they shouldn't pay for services they use?

Theeyeballsinthesky · 18/10/2023 07:28

Depends when it was done and if looked likely they would have any date needs.

personally I don’t know why people think leaving yourself to the mercy of the local authority & how much they’re prepared to pay for your care (which in reality means we’re paying so they can leave their home to their children) is something to be applauded. Plus people often forget that once the property is transferred & is no long theirs it can for example become part of assets in a divorce settlement or can be used as collateral in a loan that may be defaulted on.

couple on our road transferred home to their children. The elderly husband died & the wife get dementia. The son was adamant that they would not approach social services for help & left it to his sister to cope. Eventually after she was found wandering one too many times, social services got involved, assessed her and she needed residential care but that they could only pay up to a certain amount which meant putting her in a home 50 miles away. Or the children could top up & she could go into the nearer home. Son refused to touch his inheritance and daughter couldn’t afford more fees on her own. Fortunately the lady died while they were still wrangling but how much easier and better her quality of life woukd have been at the end if she’d have been able to use her own assets ti get the care she needed rather than being at the mercy of others.

NotObligedToArgueWithStrangers · 18/10/2023 07:29

GreenwichOrTwicks · 18/10/2023 07:27

I hope those who are trying to get free housing and care at the expense of others are not also complaining about the lack of public services. Really disgusting.

Totally agree

Theeyeballsinthesky · 18/10/2023 07:30

ExtraOnions · 18/10/2023 07:19

Depends how long before any care was needed, it was done

it needs to be a number of years (I think 5 … though someone will know more).

We are going through this now, my parents house can’t be used as an “assets” on the Council calculation, as my brother (who is over 60), has lived there for 5 years.

That’s normal though, that’s the law. House is disregarded if lived in by spouse or relative over the age of 60

aswarmofmidges · 18/10/2023 07:30

So what happens if your parents need care ? Would someone pay for it for them or would they just have to take whatever the council could provide

PermanentTemporary · 18/10/2023 07:31

I think they are crazy to risk not being able to make choices about what care they receive. On them I guess.

Roiesin57 · 18/10/2023 07:31

My parents have done this. They did it with their solicitor when they arranged their wills. My dad passed away three years ago. If my mum ever needs care then my dad's half of the value of the house can't be used for her care home fees.
It is written into their wills that although their half of the house goes into trust, in the event of their death the surviving spouse can remain in the house without paying half of the market value if rent to those who are named in the trust
This protects our mum & prevents us from turfing her out so we can get our hands on our dad's share before she has died (not thar we ever would!)
It also protects hus share should my mum remarry.
If she wanted to move house I don't know if that is affected, that's something they forgot to ask; but as she doesn't want to move it doesn't matter to us; but I would still ask the question when we do our wills.

PosterBoy · 18/10/2023 07:32

It's fine as long as they took basic precautions - didn't write down they were doing it to avoid fees, did it when they were well with no expectation of needing a care home at the time.

pickledandpuzzled · 18/10/2023 07:33

Do you negotiate with the council? Does a charge just build up in the meantime?

My BiL has always lived with his parents. I’m worried about him when they pass. He has limited ability (ASD?)

ilovesooty · 18/10/2023 07:36

It's quite reasonable to sell your house to fund care if you're no longer living in it. At least it means you get some choice about the quality of care you can access.

Lampan · 18/10/2023 07:38

PermanentTemporary · 18/10/2023 07:31

I think they are crazy to risk not being able to make choices about what care they receive. On them I guess.

This

The whole care system in this country is a mess, but while ever it is the way it is, I can’t understand why anyone with money, and presumably used to a relatively good standard of living, would choose to leave themselves at the mercy of the local authorities? Finding a care home place can be hell even when you can pay privately, I dread to think of the alternatives.

Ginmonkeyagain · 18/10/2023 07:41

Indeed. If I or Mr Monkey need care at anytime in the future I fully intend to use any money we have, including our flat, to get the best care we can afford.

If my parents ended up with no choice or in a poor situation with their care because they were trying to save an inheritance for me I would be fucking ashamed.

NeedToChangeName · 18/10/2023 07:42

Trusts have their place, but I think it's disgusting that people with assets can tie up their affairs to avoid care home fees. Why should the taxpayer pay fees for someone who can afford to pay their way?

See also, personal injury settlement trusts where the injured party receives £££ compensation, puts it in a trust and remains entitled to state benefits

Theeyeballsinthesky · 18/10/2023 07:42

pickledandpuzzled · 18/10/2023 07:33

Do you negotiate with the council? Does a charge just build up in the meantime?

My BiL has always lived with his parents. I’m worried about him when they pass. He has limited ability (ASD?)

He’s a vulnerable adult and so the value of the home would be disregarded

YireosDodeAver · 18/10/2023 07:43

It's not a thing I would do because the care homes that you get if you have no assets and are reliant totally on council funding for your care are way worse than those you can access if you self-fund. It's grim enough being in a care home at all without deliberately trying to engineer a situation so that if you need care you will be as miserable as possible. If you are in a position where such a plan would work (ie there's no care needs on the horizon) then you are just as likely or even more so to never need a care home so it seems like a totally waste of money to me.

ASCCM · 18/10/2023 07:46

Oh sure do this, if you want to go to a shit council run bed wherever they decide send you, instead of choosing one yourself and going to a nice one! Soon, you’ll only ever spend 85k on care so this would really be unnecessary ( and setting you up for a shitty care home experience)

I have people that ‘hide’ money and then expect freebies. Not cool.

Groovy48592747 · 18/10/2023 07:47

I had family members who did this to try to avoid care home fees.

I can't remember exactly what happened but in summary it didn't work. The house was sold to pay for the fees.

If it worked, everyone would be doing this, or at least a lot of people would, to try to get around it, and the state would be paying for all?

JudgeJ · 18/10/2023 07:53

Pushkinini · 18/10/2023 07:21

My DH did this before he died 25 years ago. My understanding is that his half of the house is in trust and DM's half is not. They were tenants in common.

As you can't sell half a house, our solicitor told us that DM cannot be forced to sell while she is still living in it. However, I suspect that should she need care, once she is gone, the council will come looking for payment from the half that isn't in trust.

We did this, when OH died once probate was given which we did ourselves, my daughter and I, we had to use a solicitor to set up the trust. We hadn't realised though that any funds held solely on his name could also go into the trust, we decided against that as we would have needed to have those accounts annually audited.

jc12689 · 18/10/2023 07:54

Groovy48592747 · 18/10/2023 07:47

I had family members who did this to try to avoid care home fees.

I can't remember exactly what happened but in summary it didn't work. The house was sold to pay for the fees.

If it worked, everyone would be doing this, or at least a lot of people would, to try to get around it, and the state would be paying for all?

When you say "the state" what you mean of course is the taxpayer.