Putting house into trust to avoid care home fees

[Winterday1991]

A friend mentioned that her parents had put their property into trust to avoid potential care home fees liability. Is this as simple as she suggests? Would this not be classed as deprivation of assets by the council?

She will have given up part of her pension.

Why shouldn't you pay? Do you expect to go to a hotel for free?

@BorgQueen
It's 7 years in my area in Scotland, as I've supported someone through an ordeal of family stealing and applying for pension credit etc

@PositanoBay
I also don't want to pay £1k a week for substandard care - or the same care as the free person next to me
The person next to you, hasn't been fortunate enough to work in a job that enabled them to save or have a mortgage, but has paid taxes all their life so they are entitled to support.
Horrible arrogant attitude from you.

If me and/or DH need care, we plan to use our assets to pay for good quality care as FiL did. The difference in quality of care between council and private was significant. We absolutely need council care homes but if nobody pays then the service will be the absolute minimum.

So would that have been taken directly for her pension? I had access to her bank statements and didn’t notice a change.
We paid nothing directly to the care home.

Is fucking selfish.

This was a 'complete the sentence' post I assume?

The point you / your family know you need full time residential care and the point the local authority will assess you need it will be wildly different. What happens in the interim is you may get some home visits for a few mins a day between a wide range of hours which if you can't feed, dress or manage medication for yourself will deteriorate your health and your quality of life. Your family will have endless very stressful and frustrating meetings with social services where successive inadequate care plans get proposed. Your family will lose sleep worrying about you, take time off work and other caring responsibilities to do the best they can overstretching themselves and impacting their own health and well-being in the process causing arguments between themselves even when everyone is trying their best. At least that's my experience and the experience of everyone I know whose parents / grandparents need state assistance. It's not worth any money you'd pass on to them.

We for a start it's not just "the state" that picks up the costs. It's the other poor saps who are self funding in the nursing home heavily subsidising the care of those for whom the council pays a fraction of the cost of keeping them there.

Surely for the majority of people putting your house in a trust is purely for avoiding care home fees so could be seen through. If you are a couple they don’t make you sell your house if one of the couple is still living in the house or other dependent relative

Because they should be funded. If I have cancer, all* my treatment and care will be funded. But for some reason, dementia and Parkinsons are not.

Care is also funded for the under 65s.

Which rather points towards it being an ageist thing. I don't object to paying tax towards it, though. I think IHT is fair, and increasing it and lowering the threshold at which it is paid would spread the risk across everyone.

*I know some experimental or very expensive treatments are not covered by the NHS.

On another note, what about people who earn the same except one person saves and the other spends it all before they reach old age. Should they both be treated the same? Should the saver be penalised for being sensible? As long as some people get free care in old age there will be those who will try to ‘get free care in old age’ by signing over their assets to their children.

I didn't know that there were that many council care homes left. As an example, the last one in Southampton has just closed down.

Why should I pay for a care home if I have worked and paid for a mortgage all my adult life? I want my kids to benefit from my house. Especially as they cannot afford to get a mortgage at the moment

Well to be fair you could give them money now. If you can afford it, that is.

My parents have recently been considering this however the conclusion that we came to through discussions was that we would want to sell the house if it enabled them to have better care in their old age. Also it may be that they downsize before that time anyway so it's adding a layer of complication that they don't really want.
I'm not sure how successful it would be if a council looked into it to be honest. I think it's frustrating for parents as the older generations worked and were generally able to leave an inheritance for their families which I think will have given them some comfort but unfortunately that is not the case anymore.

Agree, I don’t understand why anyone would do this and be at the mercy of the local council as to where you are cared for when you have a house that could fund a care or retirement home of your choosing, no way would I sign my house to a trust just so relatives get a large inheritance, I find that really bizarre.

What if they both earned the same wage throughout their working life and one was just better with money? The one getting the free care went on holiday every year and financed a new car every three years. The saver never went abroad and drove old bangers in order to buy a house to leave to their children. Should they still be treated the same? It’s too complicated to ever be fair so you can’t blame someone who saved for their family to try to protect those savings in old age.

Anyone would think Council Homes were like the poor house - the one near me is lovely.

When I was a SW with elderly and disabled there were council-run homes - they were good with properly trained and supported staff and proper oversight. Now there are virtually none left - it has all been handed over to the private sector with their profit imperative. The inspection system is a joke.

Having just gone through the most dreadful time trying to find good care for my late OH, my AC have been very clear that they would not want a big inheritance (not that I have that - just the house and a bit of savings) at the expense of quality care for me should that ever become necessary.

Oh piss off. If you had cancer you wouldn’t be expected to pay for your own care so why with dementia? And if you want to get mad about a lack of public services get mad with our politicians, they are the ones ripping us off big time with their dodgy ways.

I know many people will have paid taxes but the home my Auntie was in most of the elderly clients were council funded and told my Auntie they had been housewives so had not paid. What people do today is very different than what happened 60+ years ago. Then most married woman stayed home and did not go out to work. These are the ones currently in the nursing homes.

you do realise that the Council funded residents will also have been paying tax on their earnings throughout their lives, don't you?

As will those paying thousands every month.

This was like the care home my Auntie was in. It was not bad really. They had entertainment sometimes and the residents who were well enough got driven out in a minibus once a week. All residents got treated the same but council funded paid far less and private funders like Auntie had to pay extra to subsidise them.

I agree. Why should the state pay when the money is there?

Homeowners can apply for a Disability Facilities Grant. How much you get would depend on savings/income:

https://www.gov.uk/disabled-facilities-grants