Private school vs private anything educational

[stopitstopitnooow]

If you have an issue with private schools, why? Do you have an issue with:

Buying houses in expensive catchment areas
Extracurricular activities such as music lessons, swimming, sports coaching
Tutors; language, 11+, GCSE

(Also, private healthcare, dentists, opticians)

I honestly don't understand the angst when it comes to private schools. Let people spend their money however they see fit.

Would you move him if there wasn't a grammar school and he had to go to a comp?
Would he have passed 11+ (or been in the top bracket accepted) if he hadn't gone to prep school?

Any kid who is bright enough should have the same chance of getting into Oxbridge or medical school end of. Instead we have an unfair private education system that hardly anybody can afford deciding who is more likely to get those places. It’s not music lessons or the better comprehensives, it’s private schools

It’s 2023 and needs to stop.

But the government can't afford to pay for everything a private school offers. Children get education for free. In other countries this is unheard of. Yet in the UK people want more, more, more. Life isn't fair. Money buys better things. That's just the way it is.

(I went to state school, as did everyone I know, and we've turned out fine).

tiktokontheclock · Today 21:34

I doubt they’ll be worried about a very tiny number of private parents not voting for them.

Not envy here either. We could easily have afforded private. Both educated to high level too (post doc in case of DH). The comp the children went to wasnt leafy either, but simply embedded in its community, with children from all kinds of backgrounds attending.
The result? One child who went to Cambridge, the other to Durham. Both working in fields they're happy in.
So definitely not jealous. Just frustrated at people like
OP who whine.

@stopitstopitnooow a lot are moving now before the law comes in as it's at a good stage in DC education to move them vs take the risk.

I also don't get it, our local outstanding comps gets very similar results to the local private (within 1-3% either way year on year) but in the catchment, the average house price is significantly higher than just outside of it. The advantage is you can sell the house and get the money back but you don't get the 7am-6pm everything sorted for you benefit of private. The connections will still come from the parents friends who all have good jobs and know someone who knows someone in X company etc.

Plenty of people would abolish private schools if they could, including Labour Party members who voted to do just that in 2019 (I’m assuming that plan has now been dropped because they’ve realised there’s no way that it could be done, for example under human rights law).

Absolutely this. Put an end to this ridiculous system which leads us to having some of the lowest social mobility in the world.

I have an issue with Govt involvement in education.

Monopoly is always bad. I can’t think of anyone I’d trust less with young minds than the Govt. I blame early receipt of Govt ministrations for our population’s seemingly infinite capacity to demand more Govt.

I used to be vaguely against private schools but now I think they are a symptom of an unequal society, not the cause of it. I dont think anything woukd change if they were banned and i quite like the idea that there isnt a state monopoly.

My previous objection to them was around the people with power/influence not using them meant they werent interested in ensuring they were good. I dont mean individual parents changing the school by joining the PTA which is unlikely . But all those party donars, big business that lobby, judiciary that make decisions, journalist etc all presuring the government to improve education. If you look at a lot of press it is quite anti teacher and oxbridge obsessed. i wonder if more journalists were invested in the state system the press would be more pro teachers and consider other university options as good.

Yes, and private health care, and grammar schools and 11+, and would fund schools in ways that try to balance the expensive catchment issue.

Someone's mum owning a Porsche doesn't unfairly affect their life chances.

So to answer your questions:

1. we have no choice but to move him as private will be too expensive with VAT.
2. we would move house to make sure DS had a good state option.
3. who knows, but we would have tutored for 11+ if needed.

I was privately educated. I am not against private schools. But I support the move to remove tax breaks from them. Why shouldn’t privilege be taxed?

Do you have an issue with:

Buying houses in expensive catchment areas
Extracurricular activities such as music lessons, swimming, sports coaching
Tutors; language, 11+, GCSE

(Also, private healthcare, dentists, opticians)

... Yes to most of that? I think all healthcare should be free at the point of service. I think that schools should be massively incentivised to work together to improve the schools around them, rather than pitted against each other.

I think that ideally music, swimming and sports lessons should be available to a reasonable level at all schools. I don't have a massive problem with those small extra lessons though because they don't have such a stark effect as private schools do, however. They are also available to far more children than private schools are.

Probably because private schools perpetuate and exacerbate inequality.

Maybe people would prefer UCAS to sort the unfair advantage a private education brings and the over representation of the privately educated on the top courses by doing a UCAS points handicap or bonus system with kids from state schools getting extra points or being given priority. Then only the very best from private schools would get the few places left on the most sort after courses. Would kind of give a more realistic view of what the majority have to contend with when applying. Obviously a free state education and the same UCAs points advantage would be sitting there waiting for anybody who wished to join the state educated.

Where I live, all those who can afford it pay for a weekly tutor for a full year in order to get their children into a nationally acclaimed grammar school. The school delivers what I think most of the country would regard as 'amazing' results, it is near the top of the league tables for state schools.
Everyone who has had very bright children and not tutored, or only done a few months, has failed the admissions test. Even the very bright children.
If you cannot afford £30-£50 a week for one whole year for your child to be tutored, they will not get in.
I fundamentally disagree with it.

I haven’t seen any policies trying to disincentivise private healthcare for example though? Why aren’t the Labour Party proposing to add VAT to private healthcare and use the funds for the NHS?

I think some of the views expressed on this thread illustrate why I don't agree with private schools.

Resolutely failing to see that unequal distribution of possessions cant really be compared with the right for all children to the same chances in education.

Provision of education would be vastly improved for everyone if the rich couldn't buy an advantage.

I am a high earning professional. I could have afforded to send my children to private school. This is not about me being envious.

This gets dragged out on Mumsnet regularly.

It's all a bit of a pointless debate because private schools are going to continue to exist and parents who can afford to and want to will pay for their children to have a superior education. It's emotive because it buys into the message of class, and some people being "better" than others - better educated, better opportunities and all the wealthy kids and parents mixing together without the riff raff.

The state system is very mixed, some good and some pretty poor, instead of wasting energy being envious about those who can afford private schools parents should IMO do what they can practically do to support their children's school and learning.

Mammyofonlyone · Today 21:53

Of course it delivers top results it only has the top most motivated percentage attending. Bright kids have the capability to do well anywhere.

It’s far more impressive to see schools with a mixed intake producing results that show massive progress and achievement at all levels and starting points.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-truth-about-getting-into-oxbridge/

If you cannot get through the paywall:

The grammar school figure for the acceptance of students educated in the UK is, in fact, 4.1 per cent higher than the independent school figure (20.7 percent).

You need to understand that education should be a leveller. The issue with private schools is that parents who care and are engaged enough to spend money on private schools fail to contribute to their local school. If these families went to the local school it would benefit all. A greater number of parents invested, more pupils in that school who come from supportive backgrounds benefits everyone.
You also need to understand that there is a disproportionate advantage in going to private school compared to state schools when it comes to university places and job opportunities. Interestingly pupils who went to state school with the same A level grades as a pupil who went to private school go on to get better degrees. Yet they are still disadvantaged in the jobs market. Education should enable our society to be a true meritocracy but the private school system prevents this. That is why I have a problem with it.

Life is unfair. You can’t have equality across everything. There are people who think your life in unfair.

I’ve put mine in private school - I’ve spent 5 years at university (which I funded myself by working alongside it) and have worked in professional services with an average work week of 60-80 hours to be able to do it (for over 10 years)

Everyone’s definition of working hard is different as is everyone’s definition of what a fair life looks like.