Private school vs private anything educational

[stopitstopitnooow]

If you have an issue with private schools, why? Do you have an issue with:

Buying houses in expensive catchment areas
Extracurricular activities such as music lessons, swimming, sports coaching
Tutors; language, 11+, GCSE

(Also, private healthcare, dentists, opticians)

I honestly don't understand the angst when it comes to private schools. Let people spend their money however they see fit.

Why do you care so much? Is this a "look how rich I am!" post?

So where are the policies aiming to close these inequalities? It seems strange to attack the 6% privately educated without trying to close even bigger inequalities elsewhere.

It's a topical subject. You know, in the news.

Whilst private schools/healthcare etc etc are around, the government don't give a shit enough to put any money into them bevause the outcome doesn't affect them. Who cares if there is 50 to a class in state school, or its a 3 week wait for a gp appt? I can just pay for better

I’m not against them overall (do what you want, I DGAF really), but I’m pretty much against them for us. I haven’t seen them ‘work’. The most successful (professionally and personally) people I know went to state school and the most cliquey/insecure are private schoolers. Also 100% of the private school-goers I know (including my parents) can’t/couldn’t afford to send their kids to private school, so…? They’re in normal, fine, lovely jobs they could have done with a state education. So what was it all for? I just don’t get it. I’m not sure what the aim of the system is.

OBVIOUSLY if we had the money to afford private school without making any sacrifices then it would be tempting to explore the local ones. There are some nice alternative artsy ones round here.
And that’s why it serves no one to be so set in your ways and inflexible 😄 gotta leave room for circumstances and opinions to change!

Another76543
Not in my experience of “outstanding grammars”. Behaviour was dreadful, ditto mental health, teaching which was tired and lazy, bullying rife, funding dreadful, classes massive and SEN provision woeful…. Still kept the outstanding because the cohort hands results on a plate with little effort from staff.

EmpressoftheMundane

You seriously don’t know?🤔

Nope

Grades are as good, access to university even better than private.

Are you a private school parent OP?

I should start by saying I’m on the fence about private schools, from a liberal perspective I don’t like the idea of removing choice from people but you’ve asked about the arguments against them, so here’s my thoughts;

Education is the most important factor in social mobility, therefore it’s very important from a societal perspective. It doesn’t matter to anyone else whether you drive a Porsche but that’s not true for how our children are educated. Private schools negatively impact the life changes of children in state schools in 2 ways;

1. the state schools are worse for having the kids from affluent families removed.
2. the kids who go to private schools are at an advantage when going for the top university places / job opportunities thus making it harder for state school kids to succeed in later life to the same extent.

on your OP you draw equivalence between sending kids to private schools and moving to a good catchment area / paying for tutors. Whilst obviously these actions will benefit the children in question, the impact is less significant than a private education. I don’t think it’s necessary a good argument to say that because it’s not practical to remove all the ways in which some children experience privilege, that any effort to ‘level the playing field’ is totally without merit.

as you point out, money buys us things that other (less wealthy people) don’t have access to, that’s just capitalism. However, we do draw lines (as a society) about what we are comfortable being ‘up for sale’. For example, we have no market in human organs in the country, we have decided that money shouldn’t buy you a better chance to get s new kidney, everyone had the same opportunity. Hopefully the rather extreme example doesn’t detract from the philosophical point! If you are interested there is a great book called ‘What Money Can't Buy: The Moral Limits of Markets’ by Michael Sandel, it’s very interesting.

I haven't seen a policy to close private schools?
But labour policies have always been to provide equal access free at point of use.
As far as I know no state grammar schools exist in areas where Labour have had control over the Local education authority.

'Buying houses in expensive catchment areas
Extracurricular activities such as music lessons, swimming, sports coaching
Tutors; language, 11+, GCSE

(Also, private healthcare, dentists, opticians)'

OP all those are things privately educated families are more likely to have than state educated. All private is doing is piling on more privilege. The vast majority of children in this country do not have most of those things. The children I know who have been privately educated do.
If your children are privately educated, own it, don't bleat about it. It's very tiresome and increasingly common on here.

The system is hugely unequal but in a capitalist system it works perfectly.
I have two examples:
A bricklayer who worked for me had a son who had just passed two GCSEs. The day after he left school he was helping his father for £100/day labouring, in one year time he was making £200/£250 a day laying bricks.
The girl that does my sister's nails in Oxford never been to London. Doesn't know much about the world apart from the manicure. But she is good at her job and charges £40/£50 per customer, with a 2 weeks waiting list.

Now can anyone explain why as a tax payer I need to pay for someone who really doesn't need to be educated. Who can master their profession without the state spending years educating them.

It's not envy

It was essential to me that my son went to the local comp because I want him to be part of our local community and understand people come from all backgrounds. I also don't believe in social segregation or buying privilege.

Someone who buys in catchment of a naice middle class state school can also do that though

EmpressoftheMundane

Errr they really aren't.

Just 7% of children attend private schools. Yet privately educated young people make up almost one in three undergraduates at the country’s most selective universities. In the jobs market, the figures are even worse: two-thirds of the senior judiciary were privately educated as were six out of 10 civil service permanent secretaries, more than half of diplomats and more than four in 10 senior media editors. This is not a product simply of their raw ability, but also of the vast resources that go into their education, the social connections and favours it opens up and the other forms of cultural capital it endows.

Hoards of kids at grammars don’t get into Oxbridge, on medicine course etc even though theoretically they should be. Stands to reason the teaching is no better and it’s the same massively underfunded state education with huge classes and no social connections. Often taught by tired teachers trained in the same training colleges who can’t hack diverse comprehensives.

Could you have afforded private school fees?

I've been thinking about this, and I think Labour are going with this as it makes a big ideological statement while also not losing many votes on the process.
It's easily enforced and raises money.
It is probably the single most socialist statement that they have in their offer.
It also chimes with the anti toff anti Tory sentiment.

I'm not that someone though. So my child doesn't get private school opportunities.

I get it, people with money buy better things. But I'm upset that someone has felt the need to start a thread about how amazing private school is and why we should all support it even though our children, our actual children which we love to bits and want to give the best life to, will never have. Like most children.

It's like starting a thread about how amazing it is to have a Lamborghini and how everyone should be supportive because buying one gives jobs to the little people who need a wage.

Plenty of people have more money than me. They also have more class than OP than to start a thread.

I think what people don't understand is those networks will always exist. It's just that without the private schools (or without access to private schools for the upper middle classes), those elite networks will be even more insular and impenetrable from the outside.

I also think that it's hilarious that people claim "left leaning socialists" such as those on the left side of the Labour party believe any of the shyte they want to inflict on everyone. I've taught in inner city failing schools on improvement plans in deprived areas. Precisely zero of their parents were well educated high earning left leaning socialists. Funnily enough. People on the left want their children to meet children from "all walks of life" for a given value of "all walks of life" and not too shabby or poor or suffering from the problems therein.

Inequality will always exist. And if this country becomes too shit for the upper middle class professionals who generally have portable in-demand skills and experience, and contacts, they will move abroad which will be a net loss for the UK as we'll be back to the modern equivalent of landed gentry and serfs and no mobility.

It loses a lot of votes. Dd is privately educated and even those parents I know who may have voted for them won't if they continue to push this.

Totally agree OP. The bad feeling from some towards parents who make this choice - you'd think they were stomping on other families to get ahead when the reality is its a huge financial sacrifice and they're actually freeing up space in state education.
Its an envy and just plain ignorance issue.

Yes we could. My son is also v bright (was in top groups at primary - I went to Cambridge Uni) but I don't believe in it. So far so good in the local comp!

It can’t be justified. The decision to charge VAT on school fees seems like madness.

My DS has just passed the 11+, so we’re moving him to grammar school from private. Not what we planned but we can’t afford the VAT on fees. It also means I no longer need to work full time.

So the government will pay roughly £50,000 to educate my DS (years 11-13), and lose £20,000 a year in tax.

The effect will be to cost the government nearly £200,000 for my DS alone. We’re also depriving another DC of a grammar school place.

I have no idea how that benefits anyone: neither my DS, the state educated DC in my area or the government.

They haven't passed the law yet, or even been elected and you're moving your son?

Madness