Page 6 | Private school vs private anything educational

stopitstopitnooow · 2023-10-17T19:38:21+00:00

If you have an issue with private schools, why? Do you have an issue with: Buying houses in expensive catchment areas Extracurricular activities such as music lessons, swimming, sports coaching Tutors; language, 11+, GCSE (Also, private healthcare, dentists, opticians) I honestly don't understand the angst when it comes to private schools. Let people spend their money however they see fit.

Mammyofonlyone · 17/10/2023 22:21

Alo3Vera · 17/10/2023 21:57

Mammyofonlyone · Today 21:53

Of course it delivers top results it only has the top most motivated percentage attending. Bright kids have the capability to do well anywhere.

It’s far more impressive to see schools with a mixed intake producing results that show massive progress and achievement at all levels and starting points.

I entirely agree. Yet we criticise a private school system because it favours the 'rich'. I'd argue that if you can afford £35-50 every week for a year per child you are also 'rich'. I don't see parents of children at these schools under attack though because they are state schools

NashvilleQueen · 17/10/2023 22:22

'Surely the argument should be that state schools must be brought up to the same level? So all DCs have access to an excellent education.'

But people who choose to fund private schools won't vote for a government who say that they're going to increase taxes in order to massively improve state provision. They'll just opt out and carry on voting Tory (generalising but I suspect largely accurate).

Martin83 · 17/10/2023 22:22

ABCXYZ17 · 17/10/2023 21:59

You need to understand that education should be a leveller. The issue with private schools is that parents who care and are engaged enough to spend money on private schools fail to contribute to their local school. If these families went to the local school it would benefit all. A greater number of parents invested, more pupils in that school who come from supportive backgrounds benefits everyone.
You also need to understand that there is a disproportionate advantage in going to private school compared to state schools when it comes to university places and job opportunities. Interestingly pupils who went to state school with the same A level grades as a pupil who went to private school go on to get better degrees. Yet they are still disadvantaged in the jobs market. Education should enable our society to be a true meritocracy but the private school system prevents this. That is why I have a problem with it.

Why would I want my bright child be in a class of less bright kids because it beneficial to them? It makes no sense.

Highandlows · 17/10/2023 22:23

Hopefully people in this country will not end here like all equally poor.

ToadOnTheHill · 17/10/2023 22:23

@DdraigGoch if there were no failing schools noone would buy their way out of the system.

Alo3Vera · 17/10/2023 22:23

ABCXYZ17

Exactly. You don’t need to be privately educated to be capable of Oxbridge, doing a medical degree or any other top job.

Stats show state educated kids actually do better at uni.

WillowCraft · 17/10/2023 22:23

Tiredalwaystired · 17/10/2023 22:18

I’ve seen posters on Mumsnet who have openly said that their very academically average family members have used the old boys network from their private school and now earn six figure sums. It’s that sort of inequality that I most have a problem with. Nothing about quality of education or learning new skills (for example out of school piano lessons) which also takes hard graft.

it’s the money can buy you the “right” connections that I have the biggest issue with.

I also understand why smaller class sizes are the appeal for children who may need more help to thrive though and I do t have a problem with that.

Just look at the government for plentiful examples of "average" (or worse) people who only have top jobs because of their public school education. Does anyone seriously think Boris Johnson would have got where he was with a comprehensive education, no mates in high places, no money and a regional accent??

Baconisdelicious · 17/10/2023 22:23

it’s the money can buy you the “right” connections that I have the biggest issue with

how is that resolved by forcing all kids into the state sector? That money, and the ‘right’ connections won’t disappear. It’ll put house prices up in the catchments of better schools, rendering them inaccessible to the average family. People will still mix with people that are the same as them.

Mommagoose · 17/10/2023 22:24

I don’t agree with them from personal experience. I do not believe the quality of education to be any better, the entrance exams function to weed out any students of a lower IQ or with learning difficulties and the fact they are fee paying the students (tend) to be of a higher socioeconomic status that will encourage their children and push them academically.
i don’t agree with them due to the intense pressure they put on students to achieve results with complete disregard for anything else.
safeguarding (at least in my experience) was non existent. Bullying was rife, and the wealthier parents kids could get away with it with a slap on the wrist. They are self regulated entities. And again from personal experience the caliber and entitlement they breed is awful.

ToadOnTheHill · 17/10/2023 22:25

Can everyone arguing in favour of private schools please drop a comment saying

"my child deserves better than yours"

EmpressoftheMundane · 17/10/2023 22:26

ABCXYZ17 · 17/10/2023 22:13

You’re not forced into it, you have the option to home educate. The only legal requirement is that you provide an education for your child.

Show quote history

I’d rather do what I am talented at, and pay some one talented at teaching to teach my children. They key is having the choice. Of not being effectively coerced.

I’d be very happy to see vouchers. Thus giving the option of choice to more parents.

Bluegreenseasoffoam · 17/10/2023 22:26

ToadOnTheHill · 17/10/2023 22:23

@DdraigGoch if there were no failing schools noone would buy their way out of the system.

They would. Govt doesn’t see kids as customers.

Anyhow. How can you have something done by Govt that doesn’t fail?

Bluegreenseasoffoam · 17/10/2023 22:28

EmpressoftheMundane · 17/10/2023 22:26

I’d rather do what I am talented at, and pay some one talented at teaching to teach my children. They key is having the choice. Of not being effectively coerced.

I’d be very happy to see vouchers. Thus giving the option of choice to more parents.

Show quote history

Yes. This. Vouchers an little restriction on how they are spent. Parents and kids would get what they want and educational offerings would improve.

But Govt won’t. Govt wants your kids.

gotomomo · 17/10/2023 22:28

Because traditionally private schools have been over represented in politics, top jobs etc. the networking opportunities, the soft skills that give students a huge boost to their careers. Doesn't seem fair whereas swimming and violin lessons just don't have the same impact. I don't agree with the 11+ either as it's not a level playing field, most areas don't have grammars do those in grammar areas have unfair advantage

newYear10 · 17/10/2023 22:29

Emanresu9 · 17/10/2023 20:51

I assume envy?

I think so too.

honestlyseriously · 17/10/2023 22:29

The most vocal against private schools in my area heavily tutor their kids and spend new year in chamonix 🤷‍♀️

ToadOnTheHill · 17/10/2023 22:29

@Highandlows you aren't saving the state £100k though, are you? How much are your termly fees and how much do you think pupil premium is? The state isn't spending as much on each child as you are on yours. I'm not having a pop at you but you're comparing apples and oranges.

Alo3Vera · 17/10/2023 22:30

Mammyofonlyone

Um you can tutor your kids on the 11+ by spending a lot less than that. I know many that diy at home using the same books as supposed tutors. Actually your extreme sum of £200 a month for a year does not make anybody rich in the same way that being able to afford private fees for a whole school life does. £200 a month for a year is doable for many, fees that are more than many earn for 14 years isn’t.

DuesToTheDirt · 17/10/2023 22:30

Buying houses in expensive catchment areas

Yeah, some people seem to think that banning private schools will give all children equal options. Obviously, it won't. And options will still be primarily influenced by money.

Bluegreenseasoffoam · 17/10/2023 22:30

WillowCraft · 17/10/2023 22:23

Just look at the government for plentiful examples of "average" (or worse) people who only have top jobs because of their public school education. Does anyone seriously think Boris Johnson would have got where he was with a comprehensive education, no mates in high places, no money and a regional accent??

Show quote history

Boris was a scholarship boy.

Exceptionally bright, driven and ruthless.

Of course he would.

gotomomo · 17/10/2023 22:30

By the way I don't thing they should be banned, it's just their shouldn't be tax breaks, it's a luxury item so vat should be payable just like in adult clothes, restaurants, some food etc etc. it's pretty much the definition of a non essential item

EmpressoftheMundane · 17/10/2023 22:31

NashvilleQueen · 17/10/2023 22:22

'Surely the argument should be that state schools must be brought up to the same level? So all DCs have access to an excellent education.'

But people who choose to fund private schools won't vote for a government who say that they're going to increase taxes in order to massively improve state provision. They'll just opt out and carry on voting Tory (generalising but I suspect largely accurate).

They are only 7% of the vote. I don’t think forcing them into state education will swing the vite much at all.

Mooshamoo · 17/10/2023 22:31

I personally think that all children should be able to access fair and equal education.

It should be a human right.

Understated32 · 17/10/2023 22:31

ToadOnTheHill · 17/10/2023 22:13

Yeah yeah @Understated32 lifes is unfair. You work harder. Not fair on little kids though, is it. Shame they have lazy parents like us working full time and still not able to get them into a good school. If only there was money and resources for all schools to be good schools. For all kids to be supported. For kids with SEN to have the provisions they need to develop and live life to their potential.

Be honest. Part of why you like private school is that your kids dont have to deal with disruptive children in classes of 30 and a lack of resources. Why shouldn't my child be entitled to that too? It's not a race to the bottom.

I will be honest - I do like that fact about private schools and I think if most people could dodge those disruptive kids who absorb the teachers time, they would too.

But if private schools are removed / penalised that is exactly what we are doing… creating a race to the bottom. We don’t just compete with ourselves as a country on the world stage.

Understated32 · 17/10/2023 22:31

Taxing private schools won’t fix the issues with state education for starters:

State schools are already oversubscribed and won’t be able to accommodate the extra children that would move from private to state
the amount of money it will raise looks good on paper but practically means nothing and will amount to negligible improvement in state school provisions
if private schools pay tax they can claim tax relief. Currently they can’t. Private schools spend an incredible amount of money and resources; 20% of this spend which would be sucked straight back out of the government coffers - also reducing the ‘estimate’ of income raised from taxing private schools
the black hole of the state school teacher pension fund is absolutely mind boggling. It’s a Ponzi scheme which is waiting to collapse - my estimate is that many teachers beginning the profession now won’t get to benefit from what they’re paying into because of the number of claimants on it in future years who are living to ever-extending ages ( longer retirements)

The money raised from taxing private schools is a rounding error on the current teacher pension liability….