Private school vs private anything educational

[stopitstopitnooow]

If you have an issue with private schools, why? Do you have an issue with:

Buying houses in expensive catchment areas
Extracurricular activities such as music lessons, swimming, sports coaching
Tutors; language, 11+, GCSE

(Also, private healthcare, dentists, opticians)

I honestly don't understand the angst when it comes to private schools. Let people spend their money however they see fit.

Maybe 1 or 2 on a bursary

Private schools often have far higher numbers than this on bursaries. Ours has around 20%. Eton has around the same amount. There are far more on bursaries than people think. Private schools can have children from more varied backgrounds than some selective state schools in wealthy areas.

With judges, journos and MPs... this is a class point, causation and correlation are not the same. Upper middle and upper classes, these families always go private and are encouraged into some professions. Private schools and wealthy families invest more time in the arts, debate, sports, humanities, medicine... may initially pay little (hence require a lot of support in early 20s) but more palatable or interesting than "crude" new money trades like software engineering, business and finance.

For lower middle and middle middle class families, those who do well enough in their careers or business and value education may send their kids to private... many scrimp and save to afford it. Especially if grammar is not available or right for some kids who cant take thr pressure. If anything, private schools help this lot of kids most, who may otherwise struggle in a large mainstream state comp - and maybe never launch in life at all. Most teenagers aren't as smart/focused as your brightest comprehensive school kids or confident enough at that age to stand up to very disruptive children.

The 20% would include those getting a tiny bursary as a proportion of fees. Average fees are 18k which is barely under average take home pay. My son’s school has over 50% on free school meals - to qualify for that you need a household income of less than 16k. To suggest private school intake is socially diverse is absurd.

If your son is happy and thriving at what you describe as “the lowest performing comps in our region” then I don’t think you fully appreciate how lucky you are.

If your son was attending the local state school in one of the deprived areas in Glasgow, you’d soon realise that most of the worries are very real.

Your experience is certainly not representative of all poorly performing state schools. As I said, you don’t realise how lucky you are.

Why should my child be dragged down to the very poor education they were receiving in a state setting? It’s not my fault the local state offering gives a much poorer education than private schools. I complained time and time again. In primary my child learned no new maths for 3 years from school and was getting totally disengaged. The head teacher told me that ‘his social conscience meant that they had a duty to focus resources on the weaker kids’. You don’t get that when you are paying for your child to attend. Every child’s needs are met.

I do feel very much I stuck with state schools. Agreed!

*lucky

I was checking after someone else asked this and we pay VAT on everything the kids do except rugby, dance & cubs. In general kids out of school clubs run for profit and so assume if their turnover is big enough you’ll pay VAT.

The majority of students at every university in Britain are from State schools. I highly doubt this small minority is laughing at the majority. I also doubt the students in a class know who did and did not actually go to private school. It may be snotty state school students laughing, and because of buss and prejudice there is an assumption that they are from private schools.

Also, private 6th Forms just don’t produce enough alumni to create meaningful networks. Even if they did, big corporations and the professions have very controlled recruitment processes that wouldn’t allow it to operate.

Because your child isn’t the only child that exists or matters.

The poster's first duty is to her own child. It's actually her legal responsibility.

Saying that she should pay VAT on school fees if the schools turnover is high enough.

That’s not a convincing argument for selective or private education, sorry. My original posts stands on the importance of it being free, accessible and standardised for all.

Maybe 1 or 2 on a bursary but tiny numbers.

As others have said, this isn't representative. A third of pupils at our school are on bursaries, many of which are full bursaries, That's over 360 pupils. I'd say rather more than 1 or 2.

I don't believe that standardising education is the answer as it should be tailored to different abilities and interests, I've benefited from going to a grammar school that was the third highest performing school, in both the state and private sectors, in my GCSE year. My exam results opened doors into investment banking, where they fell over themselves to employ state-educated women.

There's some awful and frankly lazy stereotypes on these threads about private school kids. People would be horrified if similar was said against state school kids and rightly so. They are very aware of their privilege in going to a private school and you'd have to drag where they went to school out of them. There is absolutely no mocking or looking down on state school kids, many of which are their friends at local sports clubs etc.

I appreciate everyone’s experience is different but in the examples I cite - I am actually speaking directly from my own university experience (admittedly a fair while ago). I went to a v posh university where private school kids weren’t a small minority but statistically much closer to half the student population - & it felt like it was even higher than that. People regularly laughed at & did impressions of my accent. I was regularly asked if I saw anyone get stabbed at my school. Once someone literally said to me, “did your parents just not care about education then?” (The ones who want to the poshest schools, especially the boarding schools, did talk about what school they went to. A lot. It was weird).

I was from what I’d previously thought of as a very middle class background & I still found it very isolating & demoralising. I know it can be harder for kids from working class background to not be made to feel small in those institutions. If I’d have known maybe I’d have considered going to a less posh university but I shouldn’t have had to think like that because I was as clever & capable as any privately educated kid there.

I absolutely know that state kids make up the majority of the university population - although you wouldnt believe that based on the scare stories & negative stereotypes about state education on this thread. My point is that those kinds of negative stereotypes do the majority of kids down.

In my opinion the advantage conferred upon children is middle class parents, more so than their school.
My DP has 2 state educated kids. Well off middle class family, one went to grammar the other the local decent state comp. One kid is at Oxford, The parents are helping to fund uni fees so the kid will graduate from Oxford with lower debt and a great degree. Highly encouraged in academia by parents, one of whom also went to Oxford. The other is less academic but mum got the kid a well paying job at her company and bought a car for them. They are both set up for success by the middle class parents bho can afford to help out.
My kids go to private, it's not to confer life advantage in terms of connections. It's a decent private but not one you'd have heard of. There are a few v. wealthy parents but most seem like decent middle class families. The sort that would have put their kids in grammars if it had been an option and the sort who would ensure their kids were set up for success either way.
Private is a choice and is in plenty of countries. I am happy to have a debate over the VAT point but I don't see why I can't exercise a choice around schooling, just like I can exercise choices around other things. My reasons for buying the schooling are mostly about class sizes and sports facilties and not about the "school network". I do think it's reasonable for me to solve for my kids.

Is there a wierd imbalance in government in this country with so many having been to a SMALL number of private schools ... yes. That's a bit wierd and so please STOP voting for these politicians. But deciding that all private schools are bad because the people in power went to one of about 3 ridiculously elite schools is just bonkers. But we voted for them so we do have the option to change this!

Many of our top private boarding schools and some day schools, especially in London, have a large international cohort.

Those posters saying we should ‘level’ educational opportunities by getting rid of private schools, can you answer this question.
Should tax payers fund the education of incredibly wealthy international families residing in the UK? Or are those ex-Pat children allowed a private education in Britain?

I am asking this question to highlight that limiting choice and potentially taking away advantage of the privileged in this country does not take away global advantage.

We need to level up state schools not level down.

@Ferniebrook

I want my child to mix with all backgrounds not just privileged. I prefer it when people are honest - if you’re saying you don’t want your kids mixing with state school kids that’s your decision.

I find this interesting, particularly when you say you prefer it when people are honest. I simply don’t believe that you want your kids to mix with children of all backgrounds. You want them to mix with children whose behaviour is so antisocial that they are in trouble with police by age 11? Children whose parents come into school to tell teachers to fuck off if they attempt to discipline their kids? Whose parents sell drugs outside school? Really? You want that rich tapestry of experience for your child? All those things have happened at state schools local to me.

I dare say you don’t socialise with those families. Why do you want your children to?

I realise most people don’t have the choice. That’s fair enough. But you were the one who brought up being ‘honest’ about your reasons.

There shouldn’t be the choice, is the point. Selective and paid for education deteriorates education for all.

I’d be fine sending my child to the local state school. I did for a while but daily assaults the school were powerless to prevent meant it wasn’t safe for my child to be there, and the state school endorsed our decision to move them to private agreeing it was the only way to keep her safe.

How about - radical idea- the state sector prices private schools out of the market by being as good as them? Wouldn’t it be great if a safe learning environment was available to all for free? Just now it isn’t. Wouldn’t it be great if in state schools the teacher taught and the kids listened quietly, respecting the teacher? Just now that doesn’t happen. Our state schools facilities are better than the local private schools. That’s not a differentiator.

This has nothing to do with selective and paid for education eroding education for all.

@Areallyboringperson the point is whilst this very archaic and class based system is in place which is private schools vs state schools, we will never be anywhere near an equal opportunities based society. The sheer unfairness of one child over another because of a better funded education is frankly a travesty and it permeates every aspect of British society. Every single state institution from the monarchy to the army business are all dominated by children who went to a private school. Whether you see that fact or not is irrelevant.

When we see people being deliberately segregated from great careers or access to some of these elite areas of British life just because of their schooling background which equates to class really, then don’t be surprised when we don’t collectively fulfil our potential as a country.

Private schooling is just social engineering at its finest

I'm really against any selective schools (private schools, faith schools and grammars). My kids went to the local 'leafy' comp and did well, they are all in good professions. However I would have and could have sent them private if I needed to.

I still think selective schools are awful. Imagine if everyone's child had to go to the local school. There would be uproar and I bet that there would be huge pressure to improve state schools. Rather than practically ignoring state schools that have become sink schools the government should be focusing on them and doing whatever it takes to improve them. A decent education is incredibly important and some children are denied it.

If you look at the stats it's absolutely shocking how poor some schools are.

There will always be inequalities in life but the opportunity to have a good education shouldn't be one of them.

Unfortunately most of the top politicians, policy makers and BBC reporters etc etc went to private schools or grammar schools themselves.

Do I want my child to go to school with only privileged children? No

Do I want my child to make sensible decisions about who to be friends with and see it’s best not to hang out with people involved in criminal activity? Yes

Come on, you’re clutching at straws here..it would be the same in any school. If he went private I’d still hope he’d have the sense to not be friends with children taking drugs..,

Her child being more important to her isn’t an argument for choosing private education, because she doesn’t need an argument. She’s perfectly entitled to make that choice, whether you personally approve or not. No one needs to justify their choices to you 🤷🏻‍♀️

That someone will prioritize their own child/ren should hardly be revelatory. I’m also not sure why denying your child/ren better opportunities solely on principle is being presented as noble, either.

Both my parents grew up in Communist countries. Despite the touted societal ideals, funnily enough, parents with the ability to still paid in various ways to get their children into desirable schools and avail them to opportunities denied others. The same thing would happen in the unlikely event of private education being banned in the UK - the parents with means would continue to provide their children with options not available to the majority.

Do you not think I tried to improve things at my child’s school before giving in and heading private. Department for Education at the council (some of the least intelligent public servants I have ever met!), councillors, MPs. So many letters written and meetings attended to try to ensure there is a process put in place to stretch bright kids and safeguard kids from violence. To no avail. As anyone who has tried this (and who works full time and has kids) will tell you it’s not that easy.