Private school vs private anything educational

[stopitstopitnooow]

If you have an issue with private schools, why? Do you have an issue with:

Buying houses in expensive catchment areas
Extracurricular activities such as music lessons, swimming, sports coaching
Tutors; language, 11+, GCSE

(Also, private healthcare, dentists, opticians)

I honestly don't understand the angst when it comes to private schools. Let people spend their money however they see fit.

true points

Also there may be bullying in private schools

The arguments against this are always “well there’s inequality everywhere!” like for some reason we should think “fair enough, that’s an acceptable state of things” instead of that being indicative of a generally unfair society.

Well said, though it's a pity in the next sentences you also say, 'Well there's no alternative' as if it would be completely impossible and unthinkable to change it. Shame. There really is an alternative. Competition and profiteering don't belong in education. Schools should be working together. There are excellent state schools in very challenging areas that I've been in that have high expectations and superb teaching. It can be done. It won't be done while the government think that the answers are brand new qualifications, pointless banning of mobiles and gutting funding of schools, but it could be done. And if we really can't bear to get rid of the system which perpetuates inequality and puts money before people, then they should PAY THEIR TAXES. They don't do anything charitable, whatsoever.

This is why many people choose the private route - to avoid bullies who describe people who are different as “snobby” and who laugh at “swotty” kids. My family has direct experience of being bullied in the state system for being “swotty” and I’d prefer my children to attend a school where hard work and being studious is encouraged and celebrated.

Teacher here (I work across multiple schools some in what would be classed as privileged areas.)

The behaviour across the board of students is a appalling as is the attitude of the parents. This has nothing to do with school funding it's just bad parenting.

If I could buy out of that system I would! Why should children's education be disrupted by disruptive children with bad or disengaged parents.

Makes me so cross!!

There absolutely is! But in smaller classes with more engaged parents and a tighter system of sanctions, it’s easier to deal with.

@Ladybrrrd

Competition and profiteering don't belong in education.

There really is no ‘profiteering’ in private schools. They’re generally scraping by at the moment!

What do you mean by ‘competition’ though? There’s competition for exam results and university places right across the board…

The truth is, in a ideal world, there’s be no need for private schools. I certainly don’t enjoy bankrupting myself every month on school fees. But we don’t live in an ideal world, and I won’t sacrifice my children’s well-being for a principle that’s got no chance of being realised in the next few generations. That’s the long and the short of it.

It’s not about Oxbridge or connections. Lord knows, I went to private school and I don’t have connections! It’s about now.

State comp educated (followed by Cambridge) son now at local comp middle classes avoided because of ‘rough kids’. No bullying, behavior is fine. Most of the worries are not real. I’m with above post - snobbery & avoiding the riff raff. I wanted my son to understand people come from all walks of life.

One issue I have really noticed in private school children locally (heard from parents) is the ubiquitous level of drug taking. More cash floating around. So if people think private schools will provide a nice bubble it doesn’t always seem to be like that.

I’m sure you’re right. I’d still sooner take my chances with that than with the dire classroom standards in state schools near me. We don’t have grammar schools either.

Fair enough, but I’m guessing you live somewhere nice and leafy or you’re in London with excellent state schools nearby. Not the case for most of us. Try living in one of the cheaper suburbs of Bristol or Liverpool.

‘One issue I have really noticed in private school children locally (heard from parents) is the ubiquitous level of drug taking.’

Those kids are spoiled, cash rich but often poorly parented ( easier to farm them off to private schools with long hours, long commutes on the minibus, compulsory extracurriculars that don’t involve parents),
and yes, money and drugs are available to them …

You would pay on activities if the company supplying them turned over enough.

Private schools do, they should pay the tax due on a luxury item.

That’s a nice easy narrative, but are you aware of some of the parenting standards in your average non-leafy comp? Parents who hated school and have zero interest in their children’s education? It’s grim.

I would really recommend you take the time to visit your local comps with an open mind. Despite horror stories when I visited, met the children etc the middle class runout mill was unfounded. My son is thriving.

The secret of the success of London state schools? Funding.

https://fullfact.org/education/london-schools-outperform-rest-england/

Greencastle, nice easy narrative you have there about state schools too

We have almost the lowest performing comps in our region. Over 50% children in the school are on free school meals. This doesn’t mean the children or parents are ‘bad’. My view was what can create problems in middle class flight, which is why I opted out of that, despite raised eyebrows. I spoke to children and teachers and liked what I saw in all 4 local schools.

The difference between private schools & people choosing to spend money on first class flights or whatever is that people who pay for private school are trying to buy advantage in a way that massively skews our society.

Only 7% of the population are privately educated. And yet -

65% of judges are privately educated.

29% of MPs are privately educated.

44% of newspaper columnists are privately educated.

I really don’t see how anyone can fail to understand how a system that creates that kind of divide is much, much more damaging to society than people buying differently priced cars.

(There are other examples here, but those are the ones that really struck me https://www.itv.com/news/2019-06-25/britains-most-powerful-people-more-likely-to-have-attended-private-school)

But do you really think all those testimonies in the thread I linked are lying, or that your one good experience outweighs the wealth of horror stories?!

All my kids have thrived in state school too

The horror stories round here were rife. The families who didn’t flee are not having experiences aligned with reputations. I mean apparently all the children at my son’s school are rough - for a start how can 800 pupils all be rough. If it was a bit rough the families running off to private school made it worse.

@VisiblyNot25
The 6% figure is the percentage of children privately educated at any one time. 17% of sixth formers are privately educated. Around 25% of children spend some part of their education in the private sector.

To prove that private school caused the advantage (rather than correlation) you would need to adjust for demographics and IQ etc. I expect that private school does still give an advantage but it won't be anything like as much as those stats suggest. Also judges have an average age of 66 - the world has changed a lot since they were at school and I don't think you can extrapolate much about the current day advantage conferred by a private education.

It does seem as if some people want it both ways - ie state schools are actually brilliant but private schools are unfairly benefiting children. Which is it?

Private schools socially segregate. That is my objection.