Private school vs private anything educational

[stopitstopitnooow]

If you have an issue with private schools, why? Do you have an issue with:

Buying houses in expensive catchment areas
Extracurricular activities such as music lessons, swimming, sports coaching
Tutors; language, 11+, GCSE

(Also, private healthcare, dentists, opticians)

I honestly don't understand the angst when it comes to private schools. Let people spend their money however they see fit.

Not strictly true…

https://www.harrowschool.org.uk/welcome-to-harrow/public-benefit

To quote:
As a charity, we remain mindful of this commitment to public benefit by working to fulfil three charitable aims.
1. To provide educational facilities to members of local schools and to other members of the community, so far as is consistent with the above aims.The School runs over 150 projects and partnerships with local schools and community groups. To see a growing list of case studies, visit the Harrow School profile on the Independent Schools Council's website, Schools Together. Harrow’s philanthropic, charitable, outreach and partnership work is central to Harrow School life and is referred to as Shaftesbury Enterprise.

well those are words and I am yet to see the evidence after a lifetime living here, so…

Well, I’m not sure you would know just by living nearby unless you were directly involved in one of the projects?

The independent school I work at offers all sorts of opportunities to local state schools but the people living down the road wouldn’t necessarily know 🤷‍♀️

Ok I’ve had a look at the list. Involvement with primary schools or local special education schools. Not one link up with secondary schools in the area in the projects listed.

Oh no, my bad. One link up with Bentley Wood girls school for a physics thing. So no “direct competition” then.

Ok. Fair enough. But they presumably do the stuff they’ve listed, which isn’t the ‘fuck all’ you originally cited 🤷‍♀️

Their community engagement is absolutely not enough. Not for the benefits they could bring to the teenagers in the local community.

I would say YANBU but you assume people who send their DC to state school are envious and I don't think many are. I think its a shame some people have to pay for a good education. I'm lucky as we live in a good grammar area and have bright kids suited to grammar.

I pay for 3 lots of music lessons for 2 dc, fencing, waterpolo, football, scouts/cubs, £££ school trips, private tuition for 11+, holiday clubs, private health insurance through work. I'm sure this isn't costing me as much as private school.

I wouldn't rule out paying private if ds2 failed 11+ but otherwise will save my money for their uni and my holidays!

Oh I went to private school but I lived somewhere with rubbish schools once Thatcher did for our education system. My parents scrimped to get us all into that school. I don't think lower income people could do the same nowadays.

In my area the private schools don't confer much advantage. But there clearly is an advantage.

Agree. Some are duplicated and most are primarily opportunities for sixth form pupils to have something to put on their UCAS applications/ D of E. Most state 6th forms could compile a longer list.

thats a broad assumption without any analysis to confirm it

The reason I dislike private schools is I find them, and by extension the sort of people to go there, to be very snobby. Like, "Ive got all this money and I dont want my darlings to be exposed to riffraff plebs so I will splash out on sending them to private school".

In my eyes, all schools teach kids the basics, and expose them to other kids. Nothing wrong with the state comp. Bright swotty kids can still reach their full potential and get themselves into Oxbridge by going to state comp. State comps offer extracurricular too.

Got to be a parody? Surely?

I know you send your kids to private school and think it's making them more well-rounded individuals and obviously I can't sway you.

But I'm common folk and I don't understand the need for it myself.

It’s just that you undermine any credible arguments when you use words like ‘snobby’, ‘riffraff’ etc

And it’s all very well saying there’s nothing wrong with the local comp - but there very often is a lot wrong with it. Have you seen the thread on behaviour in state schools?!

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4836123-is-behaviour-out-of-control-in-a-lot-of-schools?page=1

This is an eye-opener.

I hear you. Don’t mean to dismiss your experience here. I think you’re probably right for what it’s worth.

‘Their community engagement is absolutely not enough.’

its laughable. Stats provided by the schools themselves as well as reports by independent sources all agree on that.
Charity my arse!

Bright swotty kids can still reach their full potential and get themselves into Oxbridge by going to state comp.

Those bright swotty kids were the kids who were bullied relentlessly at the horrendous state school I attended. I was one of them.

I don’t send my son to private school with the aim being Oxbridge. I just want him to be happy. And to have a school experience that doesn’t traumatise him.

My daughter spent the first 7 years of her education surrounded by 'riffraff plebs' (though I probably would not have referred to them like that as I spent a lot of time helping in her school, got to know them well, and most were very nice children and some are still my daughter's good friends).

She is most of the way spending the subsequent 7 years of her education at a very good private school (under two years to go until she leaves) and although her primary was actually a decent school, it is chalk and cheese in terms of the educational opportunities she's been offered.

I didn't pick the secondary because of the idea that she would be surrounded by poshos. I picked it because the curriculum she was offered went far beyond even the superselective grammar that she also got into in terms of breadth and flexibility, and because the atmosphere and the way teachers interact with children is so positive and non-authoritarian.

I don't care if she goes to Oxbridge (I mean, unless it turns out to be important to her). I do care that she got to pick lots of creative subjects at GCSE. I don't care if she got a string of good grades at GCSE (she probably would have done anyway). I do care that she was able to pick which languages she wanted to study from a really wide range and was able to do up to four of them. I don't care about the basics and delivering the minimum standard to an OK level. I do care that there are high expectations in terms of effort and application. I also care that she is not subject to ridiculous rules about blazers and socks and phones.

I do hear about what life is like in state schools from her friends from primary level. It's not good enough for them either, IMO. Unfortunately we will not see anything improve until we have a change of government and also a massive change in priorities. We also need much better early years provision, much better support for families with pre-school children and yes a lot of extra funding. Don't think any of this will happen by the time my daughter has left school. Actually, I had initially intended to send her to the grammar, but the government was well on its way to destroying education by the time she entered secondary after the austerity years so I made the decision to do something else. I haven't regretted it, but no part of my decision was to do with avoiding riffraff or feeling like I or my child were better than anyone else.

Re public benefit and charity stuff, some schools are a lot better than others.

thats why for bullying it should be one strike then find a new school, why should those that want to learn suffer due to the minority,

That's just...life.

Some people are nice, some people don't give two figs about anything, and some people are dragged up, deeply unpleasant scum. But that's just how life is. Its important that my kids are exposed to people from all walks of life, even if they know themselves to avoid the chavvy kids and stick with likeminded peers.

and that is one prime example of why when some parents can, they choose private, if society wants equality for education, then any bad behaviour and its one strike and find a new school,

Trouble is, it’s endemic and really hard to pinpoint and prove. There is some deeply toxic behaviour in our schools but it’s out of control.

Because the idea that you can buy a superior education for your child sits badly with some people.

The arguments against this are always “well there’s inequality everywhere!” like for some reason we should think “fair enough, that’s an acceptable state of things” instead of that being indicative of a generally unfair society.

There isn’t really an alternative in our society though I don’t think, as eliminating private schools wouldn’t be a solution.

I also feel that if I had a child who I felt would not benefit from the local state secondaries, and if I could afford private (doubtful) and felt a specific private school was the right thing, I’d send my child there. I don’t judge parents for sending their children private if they feel it is best for their child, but I don’t feel good about the private v state system in general.

i dont see why its acceptable that students education should be disrupted due to some of the students bad behavior's in state schools, and if the option of private was available then that would be a better option for all that could go private.