Private school vs private anything educational

[stopitstopitnooow]

If you have an issue with private schools, why? Do you have an issue with:

Buying houses in expensive catchment areas
Extracurricular activities such as music lessons, swimming, sports coaching
Tutors; language, 11+, GCSE

(Also, private healthcare, dentists, opticians)

I honestly don't understand the angst when it comes to private schools. Let people spend their money however they see fit.

It seems to come mainly from those who tutor for 11 plus, pay for lots of extracurricular and have access to fairly nice secondaries.
elite schools are a symptom rather than a cause. The rich and privileged will remain so whether there are private schools or not, an increase in fees won’t affect them. It’s easier to get into universities from state school anyway

I don’t generally but just googled pre-uni internship uk & the first three were general, all big businesses.

Re. Annual reports why wouldn’t you want girls or people from disadvantaged backgrounds to be proportionally represented?

@Circe7

This issue around needing choice always baffles me to be honest. Whether you like it or not, private schools are absolutely about class - dressed up as excellence and high aspiration. Ultimately if you had a fantastic state education sector which truly produced exceptional outcomes, the argument for private schools would fall away and there would genuine equality in society. I think education are health are the cornerstones of a caring, forward thinking society. As long as every child is given that opportunity- after that it is up to them what they decide to do with it. But to have a system like private schools which fundamentally are there to separate society in to those that have opportunities and those who do not is archaic. The number of top jobs in every aspect of society which are dominated by this discriminatory system is staggering. I see again with a new crop of 20 somethings who will get those top jobs more often than not because of the school they went to.

The bottom line is that 95% of the population gets left behind - generation after generation.

just very demoralising that’s all

PGCE is not one, one week placement. 😂
There’s also 3 year courses teachers can take - BA Ed or BA Hons.

Disagree. My daughter goes to a state school. She has never ever had a tutor. She’s predicted all 9s in GCSE.

You can still engrain good studying habits and encourage a love of learning without the need to pay through the nose for it. Museums and libraries are free - you just need to take them.

Sorry, was that to me? I didn’t say anything of the sort, but I did mention a one-week placement.

If you read my post, you’ll see I’m saying that I did not do a PGCE; I did the GTP route. It was funded by the independent school at which I was working.

I did a single, one-week placement at a state school. That is just fact.

It is also fact that independent schools offer term-long placements for PGCE students. How do I know? Because the independent school at which I now teach offers these placements to PGCE students.

So it’s not all done at the expense of state schools, which was the initial point I was picking up on.

In our town the state 6th Form gets excellent results and a higher % of applicants into MDV (medicine, dentistry, veterinary) than the local independents. They also have music, performing arts, sports teams and students from all backgrounds.

This is what true choice looks like. It's not choice if people feel forced to go private because the state option is so terrible.

Fair points

But why when they're not existing to make a profit, they exist to do something good (educate people- their fee paying students, their bursary students and local people who are often invited to hear their talks or use their sports grounds etc)? They are not limited companies so why should they be treated like that?

I would disagree- all children have a right to a good /Fit for purpose education. Like all of us have a right to good enough healthcare, a roof over our heads and things like clean green outdoor space in our community. Any extras or luxuries or things that aren't necessary shouldn't be paid for by the tax payer (in my opinion). But in a free society people should be allowed to buy any extras that they choose. (Perhaps with VAT though!)

I don’t mind private school and I went to one myself. I think if you can afford the best why shouldn’t you have it.

That's really interesting

Because they're not existing to help children. They're existing to teach children who have rich parents. If they were a charity they would make their funds through other means and be open to anyone. What other charity makes it's money from the people it helps?

Anything that creates division and unequal education doesn't sit right with me. Abolish private, abolish grammar, abolish 'competition' in education imo.

I love how the argument is so often, 'Yes we KNOW it's unfair but lots of other things are on fair, so this should carry on being unfair."
Bollocks. And as for, 'they need to be charities because they are doing good." Absolute bollocks. If the school can afford a swimming pool and a wine fellow (like my DFather's public school) they can damn well afford to pay tax. Tax does good. Widening the education gap does not.

Do you feel this way about private health insurance too?

Yup. Though health insurance doesn't perpetuate the divides in society quite ad much, and I hope they don't claim to be charitable so don't really understand the question.

As an educator with more than a decade in private, state, and states-that-wish-they-were private that's just my take. Education shouldn't be a competition.

That's based on the presumption, everyone wants to learn and gain an education, you can have the best system, but if some don't want to learn then a divide is created by some gaining and achieving the grades and some not.

I hope they don't claim to be charitable so don't really understand the question.

I wasn’t really asking so much about the charity status but about the very clear stance you took over wanting to abolish private schools entirely.

You’ve answered my question though. Fair enough.

I tend to think that healthcare is an even more fundamental right than education though - it’s literally life and death in many cases, with poor public health services leading to high mortality rates. (And the way we pay doctors versus teachers also tells us a bit about the relative importance of healthcare versus education…)

But people tend to be a lot more easy-going about the notion of paying for private healthcare as opposed to paying for private education. I see that you’re not though, which seems a more logical position.

How do you feel about food and heating.
They are more fundamental than anything else.

When Govts take over those industries, people die.

Doesn't that tell you about how well Govts run things?

If something matters to you, keep it away from Govt.

Laughing at this. Our nearest private school is Harrow Boys. They do fuck all for the local community. They prefer to keep themselves in their little ivory tower at the top of the hill. You never even see them. They don’t want the plebs on their sports fields or heaven forbid the local high school kids could have a share in their facilities. Or even support their Oxbridge applications.

You miss the point.

Its not poor girls.

Its ANY girls

or

people who had free school meals.

Im sure it helps to boast a combination of the two but currently one characteristic or the other allows you to qualify. And when you are older, means your advancement helps the businesses stats.

If you have genuinely found short sixth form internships/work experiences in banking, law it accountancy which don’t require you to be female or poor, please share the links or names. This is a real life current issue for my son.

Yours seems quite an extreme position though…

I mean, before the NHS, people literally died because they couldn’t afford healthcare. I do think there’s a middle ground. These days, of course, it’s difficult to say, because the healthcare that people want is nothing like the basic care the NHS was designed to supply.

It seems to me that there has to be state provision but also the option to pay… For one thing, without the option to pay, the state simply couldn’t cope.

All available on google if you are interested in putting some effort in yourself

First one that pops up on my google:

UK Work Experience Programme | HSBC Holdings plc

There's also:
Our Programmes – InvestIN Education if you've got money to spend.

Have a look at:
Ways to get work experience | National Careers Service

Lots of online work experience from big firms

Something like this would be great experience for law:
Youth Commission - Hampshire Police and Crime Commissioner (hampshire-pcc.gov.uk)

GIYF

I don't have a problem with people who have had free meals OR girls, any girls being proportionally represented. Do you?