Private school vs private anything educational

[stopitstopitnooow]

If you have an issue with private schools, why? Do you have an issue with:

Buying houses in expensive catchment areas
Extracurricular activities such as music lessons, swimming, sports coaching
Tutors; language, 11+, GCSE

(Also, private healthcare, dentists, opticians)

I honestly don't understand the angst when it comes to private schools. Let people spend their money however they see fit.

This.

Why should it be a race to the bottom, and where will it end?

Should the state start removing the DC of wealthy engaged parents and putting them in care, so that they are not advantaged?

I think money can fix this with early intervention. Do you know of the Perry Preschool Project?

It gives evidence that high quality preschool education for disadvantaged students makes a huge difference (and would save money for the economy with students receiving it) the group who received this vs. the controlled group showed; 50% fewer teen pregnancies, 46% less likely to have been in prison, 42% higher income, 26% less likely to have received govt. assistance

https://evidencebasedprograms.org/document/perry-preschool-project-evidence-summary/

It's a false economy to skimp on state education.

Not totally impossible.

In communist countries they brand them with a label and stop anyone with the wrong grandparents from getting all but the most menial jobs.

Our Social Mobility requirements for govt and big business recruitment are scarily similar.

Everything run by monopoly is worse than everything that isn’t.

The more the State takes to divert efforts into State projects, the harder the rest of us find it to feed ourselves.

🙄 yes, providing quality state education is just like communism and means they want to take your children away from you.

Like the NHS?

Public goods aren't like normal free market products.

If the state is paying more for teen pregnancies, prison stays, benefits, policing and judicial process then yes that takes money from elsewhere. Quality early education has shown to reduce these. There is similar evidence with youth/sports clubs and crime.

It's wasting your tax money not to invest in this.

It’s a tricky one isn’t it? I honestly think that private schools create such a social divide in this country because we all know the state sector can never rival the financial clout of a private school. That in turn just means a completely unequal playing field for people. People who put their kids through private school know they are doing it to give their child a huge leg up in and with that they are pretty confident this is at the expense of other people who have not had this opportunity.

I genuinely think if as a country we truly believe in equal opportunity for everyone particularly with education, we should abolish private schools and have a fantastic world class state sector. The problem is many of the upper middle and upper classes would be horrified at such a thought because it would mean their little Rupert having to mix with the lower classes. you will not have a genuine level playing field until this private / state sector problem is resolved.

@jellyfrizz
I don’t think state education is communism but trying to ban whole sectors of the market from operating privately and effectively mandating the use of state provision would be pretty close (particularly when it’s something like education which is fundamental and basically allows a state monopoly on how children are taught to think).

but then you would have different ability sets and the ones that would of been private would be in the tops sets, so in essence private education repackaged

Let’s not forget that every single qualified teacher in the private sector was trained with public funding, in the sense that they would have had at least three placements in state schools as part of their training. Yes, schools get money from universities for this, but it does not cover the man hours that go into the student teacher.

Why would the ones that would have been private be in the top sets?

given the parents wanting them to do well and excel, then if the importance of studying is engrained, and if parents (private school) are using after school tutors ect, then it stands to reason the best and the brightest would all be in the top sets

@Guardian800
I think this misrepresents the motives of most parents. I didn’t choose a school thinking - this will ensure my child will get better exam results than that child across the road. I chose it because I think it will provide a better school experience and education for my child.

Just like I don’t think- I’ll read my child a story tonight because then he’ll read sooner than that child down the street.

I appreciate that that may be the effect but I’m only responsible for and only have control over my own child’s education.

And I think the idea of a world class state sector is an oxymoron. It is ideologically anti-choice and anti-differentiation and there doesn’t seem any willingness to change that.

State education doesn't have to be a monopoly, it isn't at the moment. And the state itself is constantly changing and subject to public pressure.

Education shouldn't be a political football. Personally I'd advocate for something like the Bank of England for education, independent from politics but accountable to the public.

Not necessarily. People often choose to go private because their children need the extra support. A lot of students don't need after school tutors to do well.

Advocating a mix of public and industry influcing education standards:

Shifting focus to the realm of education policy, the question of who should influence the educational trajectory of a nation prompts considerations of public engagement versus industry input. In democratic societies, public participation in shaping education policies is fundamental to representing diverse perspectives and societal needs.

The dynamism of workforce needs, driven by technological advancements and economic shifts, underscores the importance of a balanced approach. Relying exclusively on industry input could result in a myopic focus on short-term skills, potentially undermining the cultivation of individuals capable of navigating changing career landscapes.

In this context, a holistic approach to education policy emerges as a necessity. Public input ensures that education serves a broader purpose beyond immediate job market requirements. It encapsulates the values and priorities of a diverse society, emphasizing the development of well-rounded individuals capable of contributing to societal progress.

While industry input remains vital for addressing current workforce demands, the delicate balance between public and industry influence in education policy reflects the need for a comprehensive and adaptive approach. In democratic societies, this balance acknowledges the symbiotic relationship between individual aspirations, societal needs, and the dynamic requirements of the ever-evolving economic landscape.

I totally agree with you about motivations.

I disagree though that state education is anti-choice or anti-differentiation. Any (state or otherwise) teacher will tell you that differentiation is the core of good teaching.

true, but the chances are some parents eg the philosophy of tiger parents, helicopter parents etc, would still want the best for their children and in their view they would still likely use them reguardless of needed or not

That’s right. They don’t work.

Before 1948 we had the best health system in the world. Recently it’s one of the worst in Europe. State interference did that.

Education is way more important though because it change the ability and culture of the country.

State involvement in education has already given us the “Govt will fix it” attitudes that are already destroying our living standards.

The past few years, business have to recruit on who you are not what you can do. Keeping out middle class boys. Many from state schools are also excluded on the tests designed to reverse privilege. A parent with a degree, a parent with a professional qualification, didn’t need free school meals …. you get discriminated against.

Consider the cost and manpower of performing and monitoring this exercise continually, then collecting the data for your annual accounts. Consider the wasted talent. Consider what driven boys will do when systematically excluded from well paid jobs.

To add to the debate, hope this helps.

Elevating State School Education Through Quality Enhancement and Sustainable Funding

The debate surrounding the quality of education in state schools versus private schools often centers on resource disparities and opportunities. These paragraphs explores an approach to enhance state school education, outlining strategies to bridge the quality gap and address funding challenges simultaneously.

A multi-phased strategy is essential to elevate state school education to a level that rivals private institutions. By investing in teachers, reducing class sizes, implementing specialized programs, fostering community engagement, and creatively addressing funding challenges, state schools can create an inclusive and high-quality education system. Closing the gap between state and private schools requires a holistic approach that prioritizes both educational enhancement and sustainable funding strategies.

Keeping out middle class boys 😆

Not true, in fact.

PGCE isn’t (or at least wasn’t) the only route into teaching. I’m a qualified teacher in the private sector and I gained my qualification through the GTP, funded by the private school that was prepared to pay for my training and my salary.

One short placement (as in one week) at a state school (in which I was either observing or teaching someone else’s lesson, so not exactly costing them anything!).

That’s the kind of thing States always say when their projects are rubbish. It’s the sophisticated way of saying “Not our fault”. And at the same time “Give us more money”.

In the slums of India, cheap private schools get better results than state ones. Poor people choose to pay fees. Unqualified, lower paid teachers getting better results than Govt.

You don’t read pre-uni work experience or internship ads?

There are ones for girls. There are ones for free school meals. For most big business, there aren’t general ones.

You don’t look at annual reports? Gender and free school meals targets are stretch.