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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to wonder if all these parents who expect family support have given family support

120 replies

lesserspotted · 17/10/2023 20:00

I'm always amazed at the people on here who add " we don't have any family support" to their posts, as if "family support" is an expectation, and you are hard done by if you don't get it. It seems like people expect their relatives to come and do work for them, child care, housework, DIY, etc.

Surely relatives have their own lives, and their own work? I don't know how people are expected to find hours of free time suddenly just because someone they are related to has a baby.

"Family support" is not something I have ever witnessed or experienced in my own life, as a child or a parent, or among friends.

I wonder if the people who are upset they don't have any have actually given "family support" themselves when relatives have had children

OP posts:
Sleepysheepish · 18/10/2023 02:41

I am lucky to have family help me, but I will 100% help in return. I handle all my mothers online stuff (banking, bills, shopping etc) and I also help make appointments, drive to them, help with anything else too-I also help her partner and a couple of her friends. I also help my MIL and FIL by minding their animals when they go on vacation, and assisting with anything else I can.

I really don’t mind helping and I hope they feel the same!

coxesorangepippin · 18/10/2023 02:47

My car was at the garage and I asked her to pick me up bread, milk and sugar. She said she wouldn't have time to do all my shopping as well as hers. I messaged her that night and told her I didn't have time to take care of all my responsibilities as well as hers and could no longer provide free babysitting six days a week across three shift patterns as I had been doing for 9 years for 4 children.

^¥

Fair to call her a cheeky fucker I'd say

These people!

Not the brightest, either....

Switcheroonie · 18/10/2023 04:07

Sugarcoatedcandycane · 17/10/2023 20:20

YABU.

For me personally, when I decided to have kids, it wasn’t to raise a human from birth to 18 and close the door.
It’s not an obligation/law to have children.

Part of deciding to have children (for me) is also understanding it’s a lifelong commitment which will likely mean grandchildren, adult children going through crisis etc.

If my child gets to 30 and suddenly has an accident leaving them disabled requiring support, it is my duty to assist as much as I can with that. The government didn’t decide to have them, my friends didn’t decide to have them, strangers in the street didn’t decide to have them. I did. You do so on the understanding that the line may not then stop with you. Generations continue, a line you’ve now decided to start.

IMO if you decide to have the responsibility of bringing a human life into the world, you enter a lifelong obligation to that person. Not just 18 years and then you can wash your hands. You may aswel just just get a dog.

But what if your child is feckless, rude and entitled? Then it’s your job to raise them not to be. But what if you raise them right and they still turn out a wrong’un?
That’s the gamble you take when you have children.

That being said, I don’t think that means you have to put your life on hold and revolve it around adult dc. But they should always have some support from the people who chose to bring them into this harsh world.

Yes. Exactly.

Original poster
lesserspotted · 18/10/2023 04:21

KeepTheTempo · 17/10/2023 23:53

Is the census racist and snobby? Because that data confirms that:

  1. It's unusual to know not one person providing significant family support, when over 10% of the age 5+ population is providing unpaid care - and on top of that, 1 in 5 children receive 'informal childcare' from a relative or family friend
  2. Unpaid / familial carers are far less likely than the general population to be white, and to be well off.
  3. Most of the world is an even more exaggerated version of this. There is a ton of writing on this, if you don't trust me, or know enough people from other places and backgrounds, just check out the International Labor Organization.

This gets exhausting - there is a huge amount of straightforward racism and class prejudice on MN, which makes it more ironic that it tends to be called out most by people arguing that white people (and often privileged people) are the victims.

In this case, I was not making any statement about what was better, nor who was better. Did you assume my in-laws are white? They are not. Family care can be lovely but has its own challenges, and cultural expectations are massively onerous and often deeply unfair and sexist. However it's also the norm, outside very small and well-off parts of the world and of society.

Show quote history

did I assume your inlaws were white? No

Did you assume I was white - yes
Did you assume I was well off - yes

Are you taking generalised statistical trends and assuming you can apply them to individuals you know nothing about? -yes

the very definition of prejudiced

As I said - racist and snobby, and so so so sure you have the moral high ground, and so unable to see you are being racist and snobby - so lets add arrogant and totally un-selfaware to that

OP posts:
1Step2Step · 18/10/2023 04:48

People who comment that they don’t have any family support usually just state that as it makes things complicated if they’re juggling obligations or commitments etc.

I have a child who is 8 yo. My parents have seen him about 10 times since he was born. He never has one on one contact so won’t have much of a bond with them. He is their only grandchild too. They don’t even call him on his birthday to have a chat, maybe in Xmas day a few times. We aren’t estranged btw but they are about a 10hrs drive away.

I think it’s lovely when I see grandparents taking and watching their grandkids at swimming, see them at the park together etc. They’re very lucky.

user1492757084 · 18/10/2023 05:01

It is so nice to have a mother to speak with, to use as back up in an emergency. She is trusted, loving and fun.
I looked after her too as she was ailing.

I like being useful, familiar and kind to my younger relatives - who all seem to have a much more crowded life and a harder time to find extra money for a treat or to pay the mortgage.

Older/close relatives can make a big improvement to the stress levels of a household with youngsters. They don't have to be doing much or doing it often but the fact that they are known, available if needed and that they care is vital.

SunRainStorm · 18/10/2023 05:16

I really like this question OP.

People should ask themselves if they put out into the universe what they hope to receive.

And a lot of people take and take from their parents without considering if they are similarly supportive in return.

phoenixrosehere · 18/10/2023 05:17

I think YABU. Often people are explaining they don’t have family support in order to head off comments resolving their “issues” that say “can’t you get help from family?”

Yes.

I never expected my parents or in-laws to constantly help with our children when we chose to have them. I knew from the beginning before having children that it would mostly be on me while DH was at work. My DH hadn’t lived near his parents since he was in uni and we met when he was working in my home country. The career he is in had very few opportunities, much lower pay near his parents and he wouldn’t have gotten where he is or as far in his career if he stayed in the NE of England (We’re an hour from London).

Both of our parents had lots of family help even though MIL says she did it on her own, and her own children say different. Both DH and I were at our grandparents and relatives home growing up every week. DH, unfortunately, did expect some support once in awhile since his sister who is local received plenty (having both sets of grandparents and other family members) and his brother did as well when they lived temporarily 30 minutes away and talks about wanting to move closer for it, but I’m actually very against it. I am happy where we are despite not ever having the full family support, our children are happy and settled (oldest is autistic so definitely don’t want to move schools and have to start from the beginning with a new county), and do not think things will change if we move closer. I also don’t want to live there in the first place for reasons that have nothing to do with his family.

When they come stay with us for our sons’ birthdays, they spend it moaning to DH about the childcare they chose to and continue to give their daughter several times a week (so been hearing about this for four years and will likely hear it again next month). Every time we talk about our kids, it’s a few seconds well done and a laundry list of things that are other nieces and nephews have done/are doing so I change the subject. Knowing they do this every time they visit twice a year, why would I expect or want their support or want to be the one they moan about? To me, they have made it clear how hands-on they want to be and I’m content with that even if DH isn’t. I know it hurts him but I’m not disrupting our children’s lives because he wants more support from them.

My parents live in another country and they count down the days until they come over with a huge itinerary of what they would like to do with our children. They are more hands-on, call every week sometimes twice and are always proud of them reminding me of what my own grandparents were like. Saying that, I wouldn’t want to live close to them either . I think it’s better for us to have distance where parental boundaries are less likely to get crossed and roles get confused.

Before anyone makes assumptions, we both help out our parents so it’s not one-sided nor ever was.

DarkWingDuck · 18/10/2023 05:20

I think people are just giving context to their situation.

Creepyrosemary · 18/10/2023 06:29

My grandparents didn't help with me. Mum&fil are dead, dads too sick and MIL is fed up with childcare after taking care of SILs children for years. Which feels a bit lopsided but it is her life. So we have no help. It's fine, we manage but I fully intend to help my child if I ever become a grandparent. If I'm not able to myself I'll pay for a childminder once a week to do my share.

My child doesn't do well with people she only sees occasionally so can't use a babysitter. We haven't had a dinner with just the two of us since she's been born. Can't do something together unless it's child friendly. It's fine, we chose to have a child and that's more important than fleeting wants, but our friends just don't get it why we can never both come along to concerts etc. It's like it's normal to have at least some help, and they don't get that we only have each other as help.

Willyoubuymeahouseofgold · 18/10/2023 06:39

I had family child care support from my partners family and my own. We know how lucky we were. We perhaps saw the last generation of traditional sahm in my local area. My sister is now a grandma at the similar age and she's still working and her peers are the same.
We look after my Mum now, and I could never repay her all the love and support she has given us.
On a practical level, we call on each other for various skills or favours. As a family we would rely on each other's support in any crisis.

Unexpecteddrivinginstructor · 18/10/2023 06:52

I might have said in a post that I had no family support but this was just shorthand for saying that grandparents were too disabled/ had dementia/ were dead, because if you start to post that then you get lots of sympathy rather than solutions or views on the issue at hand. I did though arrange babysitting swaps with friends which did really help and my job was really flexible.

arintingly · 18/10/2023 07:03

I sometimes say it in posts, I always knew we wouldn't get any family support, I have broadly made my peace with it.

I say it when it's relevant to the topic. A lot of Mumsnet does seem to have grandparents on tap so I don't want to post and then have half the responses be "but can't your mum just.."

It's also relevant to my decisions and I sometimes mention it because of that. If grandparents took the kids off our hands occasionally at the weekend, we would probably work full time but instead we work four days a week, to allow for a bit of time to ourselves/to get things done.

JustGotToKeepOnKeepingOn · 18/10/2023 07:05

I never had grandparents so my mum never had family to help. She lives nowhere near me and has never helped with my DD. Maybe it doesn't cross her mind to help as she didn't have any? Anyway... I'm a single parent and haven't had any family support. It doesn't bother me. I just get on with it.

Lostcotter · 18/10/2023 07:07

SunRainStorm · 18/10/2023 05:16

I really like this question OP.

People should ask themselves if they put out into the universe what they hope to receive.

And a lot of people take and take from their parents without considering if they are similarly supportive in return.

This. I feel this was the main point of the thread that a lot of people are missing.

It’s not so much about why people announce they have no family support, it’s more about if the ones who expect /want it have been supportive to others.

Another related question is are they raising their kids to help others and not just take.

It was my friends kids birthday and I sent her a £50 as she was turning 13. I also planned to drop into her birthday event briefly to say hi ( there were going to be other adults around too). My friend then proceeded to complain that not enough “aunties” had TEXTED her child happy birthday and reminded me of her daughters phone number which I already had .

I didn’t text her child. I was going to show up to say happy birthday, had sent a gift and it still wasn’t enough.

If anything she should have encouraged her child who also had my number to text me to say thank you. this is how you can begin to instil some sense of gratitude and consideration for others in your children.

I feel some parents act very entitled and pass this on to their children who see help as a one way street. I barely hear a peep from her on my birthday.

In contrast my other close friend got her kids to record a short happy birthday video for a milestone birthday I had and it honestly brought tears to my eyes! As well as sent a gift and signed card from the family.

You don’t give to receive but at some point you do wonder if some people think support is all about them getting help.

Noicant · 18/10/2023 07:08

Mumofsend · 17/10/2023 20:16

Family support can make a huge difference. Whilst it isn't an obligation, I do think the meaning of family is to support each other as much as possible.

I find it quite jarring my parents will just about watch one of my DC for a few hours for an essential need but I was packed off to my grandparents for weeks on end. My same parents also like me to do a lot for them like running the damn dog to the hairdresser. I'd like to offer my own DC far more than I've received as they have their own families.

I think some people just don’t like children (can still love them) and only find out once they have them.

Noicant · 18/10/2023 07:10

I’ve also used the phrase for context, it’s definitely not an expectation (don’t live in the same country).

sandragreen · 18/10/2023 07:22

lesserspotted · 18/10/2023 04:21

did I assume your inlaws were white? No

Did you assume I was white - yes
Did you assume I was well off - yes

Are you taking generalised statistical trends and assuming you can apply them to individuals you know nothing about? -yes

the very definition of prejudiced

As I said - racist and snobby, and so so so sure you have the moral high ground, and so unable to see you are being racist and snobby - so lets add arrogant and totally un-selfaware to that

Show quote history

I don’t think this thread has gone the way OP expected…

OP you sound very angry about something. We might possibly be able to help if, as PP have said, you are explicit about it.

There is another thread very similar to this in tone, vaguely moaning about some grandparents who prioritise having their DGC over having friends to stay. Is that you too?

LlynTegid · 18/10/2023 07:25

I wonder if some of the people the OP refers to are the kind who would like shops open longer hours on Sundays but never work at weekends ever.

DemBonesDemBones · 18/10/2023 07:31

I think some people are babied their whole lives. They never do anything hard themselves. Which means that even when having their own children they need a lot more help than the vast majority do.
You're right op, in real life I don't see all this 'family help' described on mumsnet.

Howmanysleepsnow · 18/10/2023 07:37

I might say/ have said I have no family support. I don’t expect family support at all, for various reasons, but I’m so used to seeing/ hearing people suggest it as if it’s the norm that I may preface comments with that. I had a boss insist I work till 9.30 pm for a week saying “just have your (elderly) mum (who lives an hour away and won’t drive in the far/ if it rains) pick up the (4 primary age) kids, that’s the obvious solution, you’re just making problems “ for instance.

frenchfries111 · 18/10/2023 08:06

I know someone who is 80, she does childcare for her son non stop. Before lockdown it was 3/4 days a week she travelled to do this (over an hour), she also did all their cleaning and brought their washing home. It only reduced when there was an incident where a child was nearly hurt because she was struggling physically.
Even when she was tired/unwell she felt she had to do it, her son told her she ‘owed him’ because his GM lived with them growing up and took him to and from school. She stopped having any life of her own so that she was always available in case she had to dash there for a sick child etc (he’s called her in the middle of the night to take over before).

What does he do in return. Nothing. Not a thing. She was genuinely unwell once and was in hospital and he was furious that he didn’t have childcare. He never visits, he never takes her anywhere. She asked to move in during lockdown and he said no.

I’ve seen people before say their parents ‘owe’ them because their GP helped, they’ve had the sense to push back. A bit of babysitting is different to expected childcare.

Unexpectedlysinglemum · 18/10/2023 08:27

I would have given much more support to my friends if I'd known how hard having a baby is!
I have always given support to my brother with his kids taking them on days out etc . I have a baby now and lots of support from my parent. V little from baby's father though!

EilonwyWithRedGoldHair · 18/10/2023 08:28

lifeturnsonadime · 17/10/2023 20:11

I wonder if the ones who rely on their parents heavily for childcare now understand that they may not be able to do the same for their children, even if they want to, with rising retirement ages.

I have never had grandparents to rely on and I find it astonishing that people don't see what a big ask this is. Some grandparents are happy to do it obviously but it being an expectation baffles me.

But you never had it. My sister and I spent a lot of time with our paternal grandparents, so grandparents doing that is normal to us. My DF spent a lot of time caring for my DGM, I helped out a little as well for a while, I popped over to do some cleaning for her after work.

Pretty much everyone I knew growing up was similar in some way - though many people (not us) still had family living in the same street, or within close walking distance so leaving front doors open and family popping in and out was completely usual, as was babysitting and taking care of grandchildren, nephews, nieces etc.

autiebooklover · 18/10/2023 08:31

We had a lot of support from ex pil with my older children and none with younger children (due to circumstances mainly) I plan to offer a day or two childcare to each of my children (as I max two days per week in total) when they have kids. I also cared for my mum through end of life and currently support my dad so it goes both ends.