to wonder if all these parents who expect family support have given family support

[lesserspotted]

I'm always amazed at the people on here who add " we don't have any family support" to their posts, as if "family support" is an expectation, and you are hard done by if you don't get it. It seems like people expect their relatives to come and do work for them, child care, housework, DIY, etc.

Surely relatives have their own lives, and their own work? I don't know how people are expected to find hours of free time suddenly just because someone they are related to has a baby.

"Family support" is not something I have ever witnessed or experienced in my own life, as a child or a parent, or among friends.

I wonder if the people who are upset they don't have any have actually given "family support" themselves when relatives have had children

It always baffles me at some posters on here’s expectation that GP’s will provide at least one day of childcare a week so they can save on nursery fees. Maybe my two year old is particularly hard work but even I am exhausted from a day of tantrums, food throwing and general destruction. I would feel immensely guilty for inflicting him for 9 hours straight on my poor mum or MIL. It’s such a lot to ask of a GP in my opinion.

Ha. Yes. I've posted in tears about this before but very much so.

We are a family farm, DH family. My niece and nephew slept here every weekend and weeks at lambing. I did concerts, homework, holidays to center parcs, the lot. We couldn't have children. Had a room in our house, wonderful relationship which I wouldn't change for the world.

Then we adopted two, then had two, don't ask.

All parents are now very elderly, I care for them.

Where are aunt and uncle? Still live a hundred yards away but I don't exaggerate when I say my children would not know who they are.

Not interested in the slightest. Never done a single thing with them. The saddest thing for me is that they do not want the relationship with our children that we have and still have with theirs.

We've always had lots of support from both sides as they wanted to spend time with their grandchildren and also help us. I just thought it was the norm and I feel for my friends who get told we've had our children we are not helping you

Well I do have family support, but I don't have any family that have had children for me to support.

My retired grandmother used to look after her grandchildren all the time, and also come weekly to clean my mums and my aunties houses.

So yes I did sort of expect my mum to do similar as she was retired...OK she doesn't clean my house but she used to do childcare whenever needed, i only had to ask...while also looking after my by then very elderly grandmother.

OHs mum will take the kids out but it's slightly more on her terms...she wants to see them, or if we ask it has to be a weekend she is free - which isn't often

But families helping each other out is normal...obviously it's harder if you don't live near and depends if they are working or not. It would be pretty odd for grandparents living fairly close with no other dependents to say NO we aren't doing anything.

We commute to work every day so we can live near our parents because I knew I could rely on them. My aunt flies around the world for two weeks twice a year to do what she can for her daughter and grandchildren.

Some people are there just to take and have no intention of giving unfortunately, but you still did the right thing and I’m sure your young relatives have fond memories and value your relationship dearly. Some parents have very little interest in children that aren’t theirs.

I’m always bemused at people who move miles away from family and then cry about not having family support. What did they think would happen? Most people don’t realise how hard having kids is until they have them.

I don’t really understand families who live near by not helping each other out. Especially with kids. It takes a village and all that.

we are very much a family support family on my side. My parents live nearby and help out with childcare. We help them out now they’re getting older. My mum had cancer recently and we all pitched in with driving to appointments and stuff. My sister lives about 40 mins away, but we are all very much supportive to each other. I did loads of looking after her kids when they were little. Her eldest babysits for us now! We help out with each others pets, house moves, DIY etc. we are emotionally supportive too. Taking an interest in each others lives is important to us.

mil is totally different. Wouldn’t ever inconvenience herself to help us. But expects us to drop everything on a whim for her. Also gets really pissed if about how often we see my parents. But those visits are usually around the business of family life - pick up’s and dropping off shopping etc. she wants us all to sit around drinking tea and listening her complain 🙄

My mother is the opposite she had lots of help from our grandparents but refuses to provide support stating she did her time.

If I was braver I'd say she did her time with grandparents next door willing to babysit for her anytime, do school pick ups and drops and help in the holidays.

I think people clarify that they don’t have family support to stem the inevitable tide of posts from people saying ‘this is a total non-issue, just get your parents to take the DC for the afternoon / move in while you’re recovering from surgery / walk your dog for you twice a day / etc’ As though we all live in a cozy village surrounded by dozens of selfless relatives who don’t need to work.

‘Can’t your family help’ is on a par with ‘get a cleaner’ ‘get a nanny’ and ‘book a spa day’ as the universal solution to life’s problems.

I should also say I don't think she's unusual! Other friends say the same about their parents

I dont think its a given OP, but its much easier to say first time, no family support than say it further in the thread and be accused of drip feeding.

Sometimes you cant win

Why does MN always recoil in horror when someone dares ask their family for help? See it all the time and it’s baffles me?!

People mention it because it’s hugely relevant to loads of situations. For example we live next door to another couple of similar age, have similar age kids, we bought our houses at almost the same time for roughly the same price. Our mortgages are both due to go up next year and it will really screw us over. Our neighbours will obviously also be financially worse off but because they have zero childcare expenses due to “family support” they will be able to manage whereas we will really struggle. If we had free childcare it would save us approx £10k a year.

People often mention it as well on all sorts of threads to justify why they can’t go away for weekends or work longer hours or whatever. It’s not that they expect it per se it’s that they’re explaining that they don’t have other childcare or whatever it is.

I haven't seen that.

I have seen people comment when people expect family support in the form of GP childcare and don't think the GP have the right to say no.

Yep. Yesterday I spent yet another day off supporting various family members, one of which has mental health difficulties.

Between 10 am and almost midnight 72 phone calls and texts were made......I added them up after noticing there seemed to have been a lot. This doesn't include the 20 or so missed calls.

Yesterday was the final straw, I'm not doing this anymore and the main offenders have been blocked until I decide what to do. Not sure what this will be yet but things can't carry on as they are. And in return I get fuck all. And certainly don't get any emotional support.

Family support is not for doing the actual work. It’s mostly childcare backup, occasional sleep overs for kids and supervision.

My parents help us a lot.... I will always pick things up for them, do anything they need from me, and will absolutely care for them when they need.

I know we're not entitled to support, but this area annoys me. My grandparents (1 side anyway...) took all the grandkids after school everyday until we were old enough to want to go home instead. All school holidays too. Mostly we stayed at their home, in the garden, played, read etc, plus sleepovers. They also gave all their kids random lump sums to help out. Admittedly it was a different time, my grandma didn't work etc. She was a wonderful, kind woman.

My own parents value their dogs higher than us. My 20 month old dd doesn't know who either of them are. They won't come visit because they can't leave the dogs at home, or even in the van for an hour, or meet us somewhere outside so the dogs can come play too. We live in a flat (because we paid for it alone!), and the giant dogs can't make the stairs, or be carried up them.

I won't visit anymore as my kids start to vomit after 5 minutes of travel until we stop travelling, and the baby is too young for travel sickness pills. It's about 2 hours to get to them. We literally walk everywhere. If we did go (we used to when it was just one vomiting child), I'm faced with a child unfriendly house, with 3 dogs who don't like strangers and each weigh more than me, all acquired as leftovers once their breeding time was up, none of which had ever been off their farm or met other people before being rehomed. They're not a violent breed, but even 6ft dp would have no chance.

It would be nice to have a little practical support, or emotional. I am jealous of others - I don't know anyone who doesn't have at least ad hoc babysitting for an occasional evening out! I think it would grate less if there wasn't so much guilt tripping, self pity, or if they hadn't had so much support themselves. It makes me sad for our kids that they don't have that larger family too. We're saving a lot for them, and hoping to be able to offer to help even if it's just ad hoc baby sitting if things go wrong and we both still have to work full time.

Rant over!

I think what the OP means is that ppl shouldn't decide having a baby and then get cross that their families don't want to jump and help them whenever they need. Surely doing a favour with childcare here and there it's an option for GP and relatives and shouldn't be taken for granted at all.

I've never had family support, live in another country to my whole family and I knew the moment I decided to get pregnant that my kids would be entirely my responsibility. I never expected anyone to help me at all.

If help happens it's ok, but if not it's on me to sort, as the kids are mine after all 🤷‍♀️

Yeah - my grandparents helped my mum a lot but I’m a single parent and my mum acts as if I’ve asked for one of her kidneys if I ask her to look after dd. She expects me to run about after her though.

she’s an incredibly selfish person- I will certainly help dds, in fact I would actively want to. I don’t know if a general thing for boomers- most of my friends seem to have good family help.

Where people don't have GP support for ad hoc babysitting etc why don't you join with a group of other parents in your area and help each other out? That's what we did with the NCT group and later with pre-school parents etc.

If you mean ‘family support’ as in regular childcare then no, I don’t think that should be an expectation - although it’s far more the norm around here than not, lovely if grandparents want to offer it and it works for everyone, but nobody should be guilted into it.

We have the kind where we’ve people to call in an emergency, and also to ask for occasional babysitting, and sometimes moral support or someone to moan to, somewhere to go and drink tea and see DD be made a fuss of for a while - not all from the same person there but across both families yes we have support. And we absolutely give it too - I couldn’t begin to count the hours I’ve spent babysitting nieces and nephews from when I was 13, and now great nieces and nephews. Cared for my mum through her illness until she died. Giving my sister in law a lift to hospital tomorrow. Walked dogs. Held babies whilst their mums grabbed a shower. Taken toddlers out for the day, or just a few hours out of the way whilst parents were packing or moving or studying. Provided tutoring and homework support. DH setting up computers and solving tech issues. Shopping for in-laws, doing odd jobs around their house or tip runs. Etc etc.

There are lots of shitty families out there (one side of mine are so I do know), and obviously ill health, bereavement etc complicate things- but outside of that it’s really normal for families to want to help and support each other AND want to spend time with each other and to love/ want to spend time with each other’s children. I actually find DH’s parents weird because they’re that bit more standoffish with DD, I know my mum would have been very different if she was still here for example, but by mumsnet standards they’re positively hands-on.

Of course a huge part of it is luck, and I do feel very lucky to have that network. But it’s also an active choice we’ve made - to move/ live near family, to put the effort into maintaining and building those relationships, to consider ourselves as part of a wider family rather than our ‘own little family’. Obviously that only works because we have nice family members to make the effort with though, some people don’t.

@lifeturnsonadime That's what we did, we have some close friends whom we helped out and vice versa. Plus paid babysitters.

We’re still there for each other, it’s lovely to have such good friends. 😀

Weird thread!

Families do normally support each other.

I spent most weekends at my granny's house and dh did at his too. We don't have that sort of support but I don't hold it against my parents (one is dead and the other lives in Ireland so it would be pretty silly to expect my dcs to be spending every other weekend there). Like a lot of gps, my PILs are still working so don't have time to babysit as much as all of us would like. That's life.

But a lot of people do get regular help from family if they haven't left their home town for example. It is worth mentioning in some threads like if someone is saying they have been invited to a child free wedding or they've been offered a great job with awkward hours. The support network they have or don't have is relevant

This is us

2 primary aged children, I work 60-70 hours a week and DH is self employed.

No help with childcare. Use a mixture of wraparound care and flexibility within our roles to make it work.

Hard slog though

To add, I'm the first in my wider family to have children, so have had no one to support. I have a few parent friends, and 1 neighbour friend family, who I could ask in an emergency. But my oldest (4) is anxious, someone would have to be dying for me to ask for that help. I also help and offer to host families/playdates/childcare for these same people, and deliver. I'm working on that village!