Why do women have no standards?

[deeter]

Yes, men and their actions are the fundamental problem. I'm not shifting blame. But why are so many women choosing abusive men that are red flags from the get go? I understand the practicalities of leaving a toxic, enmeshed situation is not easy. What can we teach our daughters to prevent this from reoccurring? Why are so many women afraid of being single?

You know this works both ways right?

I think the curriculum needs to cover spotting toxic relationships

What curriculum?

It’s low self esteem. Why are so many people afraid of being single?

Lots of abusive men don't wave their red flags at the start. Many abusive relationships start off decent or with someone purposefully choosing someone vulnerable and exploiting those vulnerabilities so subtly it's not always noticed. I agree some people date people who are horrific from the start, but reality is that its hard to advise women what to avoid as it's not always overt and obvious; closing off support networks, leaving someone financially vulnerable and breaking them down emotionally is often systematic and slow.

You know this works both ways right?

So? OP hasn't said that it doesn't.

You think schools should teach this?
It's the parents responsibility to raise decent humans not the school

Do you really not know? I never know if posts like this are a wind up…

Some will grow up in households where it’s normal. And sometimes in insidious ways… parents weren’t that interested in them so normal that partner would rather be out with friends for an example. And some
will have had out and out shit role models.

Low self-esteem, low self-confidence, attachment issues to name a few things. It’s really not a straight forward issue.

it’s also not just toxic relationships but toxic friendships and bullying etc that all contribute to ‘normalising’ these shit behaviours

I recently broke up with someone I work with (big 4), pretty successful and nice enough bloke. He put down a very small gesture I had gone out of my way to make. Similar thing has happened a couple of times. Ended it cause it was a concerning pattern of behaviour.

I also grew up around DV. I was hit and punched by both parents who hated each other. Don't write DV survivors off.

In my opinion a lot of threads on MN highlight red flags from the very start when stories are recounted.

I think people need to teach their sons even more than their daughters.

I’ve been quite lucky, my children have seen my exes parents say “no, that’s not acceptable” and stand up to him, and ultimately cut him off for his treatment of me and our two girls, but that’s incredibly rare. It’s socially acceptable to neglect and abuse your partner as long as you don’t raise your hands to them.

And we all need to model to our children, again especially sons, with the people we have around us. No letting them hear Dave laughing about not paying maintenance as she ‘spends it all on her hair and nails’ no jokes about giving the wife a slap or dodging the housework.

It's ridiculous to suggest that so many women have poor standards in men based on threads started on MN. Just look at the sheer ratio of replies telling them to raise the standards and leave the bastard compared to those posters telling the op that this is as good as it gets.

Most schools do teach it. But it’s culturally ingrained as acceptable. A few hours of lessons is nothing compared to the 100, 000s of hours of exposure girl’s receive through their own relationships and families’ relationship and media eg songs, soaps and books.

I have a neglectful emotionally unavailable mother who prioritised her Holden boy child over us girl. Outright taught us girls do the housework, critical of my looks. Dad emotionally unavailable and always working. After that you can't spot healthy attention really as you never had it so all attention feels good. Then there is the base level of inequality I was primed to expect and just accept. My mother will say my father never changed a nappy and that's a boast 'am I not amazing I did it all you women today expect too much' sort of shit.

I see it happening with my kids. My girl taught to be kind and accommodating of others while my boy can make a massive problem but as long as he apologised people seem ok with him being a little shit? I try my best but I can't counter all outside influences and of course my ex his dad was abusive so is modelling to him how you treat women.

I agree this should be taught in school. Both boys and girls are missing lessons in life that their parents are either unable or too lazy to teach them. Teach it in school and normalise equality.

Well done you OP, you are a genius. Please call Number 10 and offer to redesign the curriculum.

In my case I was 18, DP was older. He convinced me that his controlling behaviour was just part of a normal adult relationship, or a sign of deep emotion. I believed him, and it escalated once I was trapped with DC. Now in my 30s and I know that it was untrue, but it's too late. And having spent my entire life in a bad relationship, I'm sure that it would take me a lot of theray to date confidently again, as I'd be worried of making the same mistake.

Is it low standards, or just the wrong standards? The dating culture (ugh) these days has such a hard focus on looks and economic prospects that long-term compatibility takes is almost irrelevant, and by the time these young women have figured out that they were applying the wrong criteria for their requirements...they either feel it's too late to correct the mistake and end up stuck with assholes, or single (often with children) and swearing that all men are low-life bastards.

The problem is the assumption that "it'll be OK, he'll change...". Sure, for some aspects that's possible - people can learn to do more housework etc - but fundamental personality traits just won't, absent a major life-changing event (which is so rare that it can be ignored as a possibility).

IMO part of this lies in the fact that society tells women their only worth lies in being a partner/wife.

Self-worth must also be a factor. Are there any practical solutions to this?

The "curriculum" can't teach everything but bullying and violent behaviour in schools is something frequently badly handled and many children/teens get away with it.
A bully as a child who doesn't get punished for it would quite likely to be a bully in adult life.
Harsher punishment for bullies is what is needed in schools.

@deeter I have found the opposite. "Have a career" is the message given to women and was the message in my day as well as now (my day was 1991).
Ironically they failed to actually give any careers advice or guidance.

It’s desperation and low self esteem, better to be with a twat than no one at all.

I'm sorry you suffered domestic abuse growing up OP. But you are victim blaming here. You expect women to be able to spot the potential for future domestic violence in advance. Most men who abuse women don't advertise it. The abuse generally creeps in slowly over time. And the blame squarely lies with them, not the women who fall for them.

There is the financial side of it too. You have to be able to afford to leave. Or be poor enough and have proof of DV you get help.

Both schools and family have a big part to play. Family needs to instil self respect, not just parents, as some parents are hopeless and abusive themselves, but the wider family! Schools should also do a lot more to deal with bullying and abuse within the school gates. Lack of self respect is the key problem and if parents/family aren't teaching their daughters/nieces etc about self respect, wellbeing, etc., then the schools need to offer support and guidance to make up.

Parents/family/schools also need to advise against peer pressure. I.e. where a girl is pressured to have a boyfriend/have sex, etc., because all her "friends" are doing it. That comes back to self respect too, of course. There needs to be a strong message that not having a boyfriend, not having sex, etc., is actually OK!

It's the "I need a boyfriend" mentality which I think is almost self destructive - some girls will "accept" anyone, even the obviously unsuitable/abusing boyfriends rather than not have one! Not because they actually "want" a boyfriend, but the peer pressure etc.

I'm actually glad that being gay is far more accepted these days, as it breaks the "mould" and expectation of teenage girls having to have a boyfriend, any boyfriend. Not just for the gays themselves, but also for everyone, as there's less pressure to be on the arms of a boy when friends have girlfriends - a complete change of the dynamics of going out, hanging out, pubbing/partying when not everyone seems to have to be a traditional "boy/girl" couple.

I'm not shifting the blame
Well your thread title contradicts that. I think it shows distain for women rather than anger at their abusers. You can start by challenging your own internalised misogyny.

Focusing on the behaviour of girls and women adds to / prolongs the problem. It takes focus off the massive political shifts that need to happen to deal with a massively complex situation. But at a basic level we should be asking why are so many men and boys abusive.

I recently turned 30 and have been told by many of my Mediterranean relatives that I will be "left on the shelf" if I'm not careful. But my childhood has taught me to be ultra cautious. I'd genuinely rather be alone than commit to a man that makes me feel bad (like my father - who has spat on me, punched me, thrown objects etc). Genuinely interested in the psychology behind why I'm repulsed by my dysfunctional childhood and others end up repeating theirs. What makes that difference?

Society in general doesn't see being single as something to aspire to. Life is becoming more and more unaffordable for single people. They get left out of "couples" events and sometimes don't have many or any single friends to spend time with. It's not just about a traumatic past or low self esteem, although yes of course they can be factors.

Now I can see that being single is better than being in a crap relationship. But when I was lonely and didn't have much else going on in my life, well a crap relationship was better than none. That's the honest truth. People make out that if you leave this shit partner there's someone else fantastic waiting in the wings. Not true. If you leave them you will probably be alone. That's more realistic. For a long time I didn't want to be alone. Now I'm ok with it but it took a long time.

I've been single and not looking for around 7 years now. And no, Mr Perfect has not popped up and made himself known! It's also totally untrue that when you stop looking, the right person comes along. Whenever that has happened, it's coincidence, nothing more. More than likely, if you are not looking you will stay single.

So if someone would rather be in a crap relationship than be alone, who am I to judge? The only exception would be if there are DC being adversely affected. Otherwise, people make their own choices.