Why do women have no standards?

[deeter]

Yes, men and their actions are the fundamental problem. I'm not shifting blame. But why are so many women choosing abusive men that are red flags from the get go? I understand the practicalities of leaving a toxic, enmeshed situation is not easy. What can we teach our daughters to prevent this from reoccurring? Why are so many women afraid of being single?

Cola2023 · Today 13:59 believe it or not

• my comments were not at any time (re read them if you like) a pronouncement of what happens in all cases they were my view of what happens in a lot of cases; and
• my comments (believe it or not) were not directed at you personally. Can you believe that might be the case on an open forum chat board that people are not speculating about your own situation?

Well for me it took being with someone very abusive to realise that most of my previous relationships had been emotionally abusive. After I’d done my research I realised that my DM very likely has borderline personality disorder and my exH is a narcissist (mid-range according to Dr Ramani). I don’t think I’d ever have worked it out if it hadn’t been for him and the internet.

Absolutely agree op. I have high self worth.

I grew up in a toxic environment where my mum had many men coming & going & I remember fallout/bricks through windows etc. My sister was treated terribly by men & was grateful for crumbs.

'Women find abusers sexy' is baiting.

They can't afford to live comfortably alone
This is a big factor both in people getting into relationships that are less than ideal, and in staying there long past the point where they want to leave. Because they simply can’t earn enough to live comfortably on their own, particularly if they will have custody of kids. This is why celebs break up more frequently than normal people - because they can afford to. They don’t have to put up with shit just to keep a roof over their head. If they want to leave, they can.

The other big factor is the biological clock. Lots of women in their late 30s settle for men who they know aren’t good enough, because they want to have a baby before it’s too late.

Cola2023 · Today 14:05

• no it isn't baiting as I am not directing it at any specific person on this thread, and in particular i am not directing it at you (as you have taken the point) I am merely speculating as to why some women get into relationships with abusive men
• the fact that some women find men who turn out to be abusive (and who display red flags that they might be very early on) can still be the case without me pointing this out being "baiting".

I still think that a lot of women find those very exact same toxic traits to be sexy and appealing at least at the start of the relationship.

People do things which are not in their best interests all the time, its not being critical to point that out, it is simply speculating as to the causes of that self destructive behaviour.

Relationships Education is on the primary and secondary curriculum. I have taught it as part of PSHE which is compulsory. Building healthy relationships and recognising abusive behaviours is an integral part.

No, men and their actions aren't the fundamental problem at all - humans being human is the problem.
Neither gender is absolved from blame - you can't blame everything with a penis for women's shit choices. Take some responsibility ffs.

I was a victim of domestic violence for years at the hands of my ex partner - I did nothing to warrant it, nothing to deserve it and never fought back except in self defence when absolutely needed.
I'd love you to tell me how 'men and their actions' were responsible for the abuse I received, a man, from a woman.

Which you're doing by saying men are the problem - see my previous post.

Yes, I think is very true. A woman I know who, when I met her, was working and studying to improve her life chances. She was dynamic, and strong, and energetic and determined. She met a man who had lots of the qualities she was looking for - he seemed kind, sensitive, empathetic. He was fun and wanted to do fun things wit her. He was loving and affectionate and wanted to spend as much time with her as possible.

He had had a very difficult childhood and his last relationship had been awful with a terrible ex. So when he did things that weren't okay, she would be upset and angry, but also, because she's a caring and empathetic person, she would feel bad for him because he couldn't help himself. He was damaged. He knew it was bad but it was instinct based on his experiences.

She threw herself into being the supportive loving person in his life he'd never had. She was going to be so much better than anyone else in his life had ever been that he was going to gain back his self esteem, learn healthy responses etc.

Yeah. I bet you can see all the red flags here. But she didn't and at that time, I didn't know what to look for either. And now, 15 years later, he has financially wrecked her. Her mental health is shot. And she is STILL having to look after him even years after they broke up because she can't (in her head) let him completely sink because they have DC together.

Anyone can be taken in by a good enough conman.

Anyone.

Including you, OP.

I think she was disputing the fact that these men display behaviours that at the beginning women supposedly find sexy - like not having proper jobs or whatever.

@Deathbyfluffy No, men and their actions aren't the fundamental problem at all
men commit violent offences at far higher rates than women, of course they are the fundamental problem

Yep, this is another crucial factor.

Whether by nature or nurture or both, most women still want to have kids.

It's still seen as a check box that must be checked otherwise you're a failure or abnormal etc.

There's obviously the genunue desire for them as well.

Most women still.dont understandably want to have kids via donor and be single mums. Most couldn't even afford to do it.

You've mentioned women worrying about their age settling with, having kids with, and staying with men who are far from great, but I find women of all ages, even young women, settle with dickheads in order to have kids. It probably just gets even worse as they age. Or it's the ones who aren't interested in going into higher education and having the career who settle with dickheads young, and the ones who are - who settle with dickheads older (same story, just a different time that they put pressure on themselves to have kids).

The young ones at least have the excuse Pg tough for not fully realising how shitty their partners are.

Relationships Education is on the primary and secondary curriculum.

Glad to hear it!

I think it starts with raising sons to have better standards tbh.

And I say that as a mum of 3 boys and 1 girl.

@Deathbyfluffy no one is saying men can not be victims of abuse.

You are not responsible for the actions of your, female, abuser. You can play "what if I'd done x, y or z" but that doesn't change who is responsible for abusing you.

The fact that women can be abusers doesn't change the fact that it's statistically demonstrable that the vast majority of abusers are men.

You're conflating two points there.

School education

Raising decent humans.

In any case, people are made up of their family genes, and there isn't much you can do about it, regardless of the nature/nurture argument. If someone is hardwired to be manipulative and abusive, that's the way they are.

Off topic but I love it when people say "x should be part of the curriculum". Yeah, sure, why not. Add in that your dopey self never learned how a mortgage or credit card works, we can teach that too. Add that to the list. Healthy eating? Yeah, go on, as if it isn't everywhere you look, give it to the teachers. Spotting terrorists? Obviously we can do this in the downtime between financial literacy and body image.
Your kids are now at school 90 hours a week, being raised by teachers while your lazy arse sits and watches Love Island. Do some parenting yourself you lazy goat

@Deathbyfluffy I am sorry you had that experience. However, the evidence is that absuive relationships are more likely to be male-to-female. I also suspect that in many many cases, the drivers of female-to-male abuse are different to the drivers of male-to-female abuse where many of these behaviours are entrenched in subtle and unconscious expectations we impose on both men and women.

Abuse where it's women-to-man is something I know very little about. It should be explored, researched and better understood, definitely.

Having said that I suspect when it comes to violence, these societal expectations probably ARE part of the problem in terms of recognising it - men are assumed to be stronger and more able to protect themselves/less physically vulnerable - so it is assumed, incorrectly, that women can't be physically violent.

In some cases, and I'm certainly NOT saying this is the case with you, women's physical violence is also likely to be reactive. And again, because of the way we're set up as a society, that's not necessarily seen or understood.

This was like mine. He was the ideal partner the first few months. Told me all about his abusive childhood so I felt sorry for him.

Nope, that's not where it starts. The first lesson is to a woman, and to earn your own money. Do NOT be a SAHM, or at least not for long.

The reason there is so much abuse from men to women is that society generally dictates that women earn less (and have the kids) so that means they are more vulnerable to an abusive man. And of course men are stronger physically.

But if you have a financially strong woman, she's a lot less likely to be dominated by an abusive man. Not always, see the sad case of Emma Pattison - but it does help to have your own financial resources. If you are reliant on a man, he can do what he likes.

Relationships are covered in secondary school as part of the wellbeing lessons, but it's still such a light touch really.

My daughter is currently completing a safeguarding unit as part of her college course and is only just realising just how toxic some relationships (friendly or romantic) that she sees daily really are.

I'm really hoping this puts her in a stronger place in terms of recognising when a relationship has only negative connotations for you...but realistically it can be really difficult to separate someone's behaviour from the emotion you hold for them, especially when you're fully enmeshed.

This isn't a one off lesson, this is something that needs repeating in life to our friends and loved ones always. They are worthy of happiness, and if a relationship makes them utter 'if only they...' on a regular basis it's really time to take a step back and look at what's actually wrong rather than putting up with poor or abusive behaviour.

Yes, by the time we are young adults, how many films and TV series have we seen based on romances? The vast vast majority. The vast majority of music is also about romance.

We are literally bombarded with it and brain washed from when we're small kids.

Until recently the core plot of every Disney film - aimed at kids - was a romance.

When I was a young child I'd hear "is this your wee boyfriend? Aw give him a kiss" "how many valentine's cards did you get".... I got worried I was a failure/reject/abnormal because I didn't have a bf and wasn't receiving valentine's card as a young child. I still hear some women speaking to kids like this now.

We are brain washed to think that the purpose of life is coupling up.

Most films and books aimed at women end in weddings and babies.

Twilight - recent books and films - is a romance, wedding, marriage, baby story. In the 00s, nothing has really changed.

This seems to be particularly aimed at females .... Males always had the alternative interests and focused of sports etc. It was not the same for girls, and is still probably not equal.

Look at the commentator on the England ladies football team ... "They return to being wives and mothers" ...would a commentator ever say the equivalent about a male football team going home after a tournament??

Things still haven't really changed all that much.

When we condition both sexes, but esp females to believe that coupledom, kids etc is the be all and end all, not optional (unless you want to be "abnormal") .... Why are we surprised that women will put up with pretty much anything to stay in a couple and family.