Why do women have no standards?

[deeter]

Yes, men and their actions are the fundamental problem. I'm not shifting blame. But why are so many women choosing abusive men that are red flags from the get go? I understand the practicalities of leaving a toxic, enmeshed situation is not easy. What can we teach our daughters to prevent this from reoccurring? Why are so many women afraid of being single?

@thecatsthecats I basically married my dad as well, so I'm eternally grateful that he was a kind man who put his family first in every way and would have done anything for us.

Only up to the point of secondary school - after that, just like girls, the primary influence on their behaviour is their social group (and, increasingly, the Internet) and not their parents.

EDIT: Which is to say, parents can set the initial conditions before that, but past that point they're limited to course corrections in drastic circumstances.

I am 42 and have been single for almost ten years (half of my DC’s lives) and I worry that my dc now see ‘being single’ as the norm. My eldest dd is almost 20, has never had a relationship and doesn’t plan too, she says it’s easier to be single. I worry that she hates men because of me 😬. So it can work both ways. BTW I love being single and my standards are very high because of my past….maybe my standards are too high?

I know many women who put up with all sorts of abuse from their partners/husbands and it makes me feel sad that they don’t feel strong enough to leave. I also no women that just go from one bad relationship to another because they don’t want to be alone.

I wouldn't give them that much credit. Rather, they try lots of different women and either walk away, or are booted away until they found one who doesn't.

Obviously there are some truly psychopathic types who are more manipulative and conscious is in their decision making but I think the reason these men are so insidious is because in most cases, these small things are just that - small. And if a woman will put up with those, that opens the door to the bigger things.

Confidence, intelligence, the means to get away from it perhaps?

I often wonder this too.

I'm curious - what's wrong with "being single" as the norm? I'm genuinely interested, but I don't exactly have a horse in the race (third decade of marriage and no plans to be otherwise).

Surely "single until an exceptional match comes along" is a good way to be? Obviously not a perfect match, because it doesn't really exist.

What am I missing?

I’m going to blame hormones and fucking Mother Nature.

I believe that makes many women more giving and more likely to think of others first.

Men have a different set of hormones which make some more competitive and and I’d even say more aggressive at times (NAMALT)

Put social conditioning on top of that and the prevailing patriarchy, it’s not surprising.

Im older and divorcing. My stbxh is a walking red flag.

Im hopeful that the younger generation (of women and men) will be less tolerant of all that shit. But what it really means is women will have to continue to be hyper vigilant and work doubly hard.

I've been in relationships since I was 16. Most of a break in between being around 9 months (I am now 30) and it had taken me a while to figure out why I had a fear of being "on my own".

Because I had always had a partner, I hadn't explored myself and thought that I couldn't. Over the last few months, I've bought myself some toys and realized that I can, and its much easier than doing the deed.

Also, since becoming a co parent, the weekends I didn't have LO were lonely. My friends were all coupled up. I felt like I needed dates to fill my time.

Now, I have a different mindset (maybe because I am older now).

I am perfectly content with a weekend of sitting in on the evenings watching what I want to watch with some wine. I can go to the gym, go for a hike, I've taken up writing again.

Im not single at the moment, but if I was to become single, I wouldn't fear it, and O certainly would be content on my own.

I take your point about hormones @Isheabastard. Oestrogen's the 'nice' hormone. When it goes into freefall in your 40s, it's like the scales dropping from your eyes and you can't believe the amount of twattiness you've tolerated or other women do.

How do you expect schools to make an impact when they are handcuffed by the system that they have to work within.

Got beaten up by a bully - restorative justice
Verbally abused by a bully - restorative justice
pupil destroys classroom - restorative justice
Pupil sears at teacher names - back in calls the next day
Pupil hits teacher - back in class the next day.
Pupils that mess about and disrupt learning - get sent on restorative jolly to teach them to be "better".

Its very much saying do as I say not as I do

I guess there’s nothing wrong with it being the norm, it’s my norm after all but I do worry that my dd thinks it’s the only option. Of course it’s not the end of the world if she wants to stay single forever but I would like her to think it’s also ok to be in a relationship if she finds the right person.

Im hopeful that the younger generation (of women and men) will be less tolerant of all that shit. But what it really means is women will have to continue to be hyper vigilant and work doubly hard.

Me too. BUT... DH and I find ourselves quite conflicted at the moment. We have an adult niece and nephew (who are siblings). Niece is in a relationship with a slightly older man who, based on the stories told by SIL and BIL, raises red flags for me and DH. To be fair, we have not met him or seen them together so we fully appreciate we are seeing this through other eyes. BUT... SIL and BIL do NOT see red flags so the flags are things they're describing in a way that they think is okay, but we are worried about. eg the boyfriend got a bit upset when SIL visited niece as he felt "excluded" when they had a morning together. SIL's response was to 1. reassure the boyfriend 2. suggest that he joined them for lunch.

Meanwhile, nephew, is, according to BIL and SIL, in an abusive relationship with a controlling woman. Who wants to know what he's doing, where he's going etc at all times and hates him being away from her. This may well be 100% true, again, we are not sure. BUT, we do know nephew, and he is absolutely the type to wander off to Tesco to get the shopping in and not return for 9 hours because he ran into some friends, went down to the pub, got drunk and didn't think to text. He is an absolutely lovely, kind, well meaning young man but he can be astonishingly self absorbed and no one (except me and DH) ever seems to call him on it. eg when he moved country, he stayed first with his aunt, then with us. She complained quite a lot about him eating food that she'd earmarked for meals or for her and her DC, or that he didn't think to replace bread/milk but she never once said anything to him. When he came to us, I explained what was fair game, what wasn't, and regularly asked him to pick up supplies as needed. So he MIGHT be in an abusive relationship, but I think it's entirely possible that he's just being a bit of a dick and his GF is pissed off.

Yes, of course men should 'behave better' and women should be taught to recognize red flags. And that already happens in households where the parents are cognizant of the needs. Certainly my sons were raised to understand that violence of any kind was wrong. That all people should be respected. And that their partners were equal to them in every way. And that 'no means no', no matter where your dick is at the time. I have no worries that either of them would abuse a partner in any way.

IMHO, what society needs to be educated in is that there is no shame in divorce or ending a relationship or cohabitation, for any reason. And that goes for when there are children involved. Not that a couple shouldn't try to work out differences if they both want to, but if one person is done, then they are done. And perhaps if women truly felt they were just as entitled to walk away if they are unhappy as a man is, more men would take care to see that their wife/partner WAS happy. Part of the reason men treat women the way they do is because they know that we'll put up with it for 'societal reasons' OR that we can't afford to walk away. My DH and I have always earned about the same and it's been a running joke between us that we better be nice to each other because we both know where the door is!! So a big shift that needs to be made is that women need to understand that they must be self supporting. Either by continuing to work full time, or having an education or qualification that would allow them to reenter the workforce. My SAHM cousin had a nursing license that she kept current by working 1 day a week. When her exH cheated on her and became abusive she was able to reenter the workforce with good earning ability. It doesn't matter if it's being a cashier at a supermarket, a hair stylist, a bookkeeper, or a brain surgeon. Women need to be able to be self supporting.

Divorce was considered a 'shame' and a 'failure', that any children of divorce would be 'scarred for life', when I was a young woman, and TBF it's not much different now. We only need to read the 'should I leave' and 'is this abuse' threads to see posts (not all, but some) where the woman is encouraged to try to 'compromise' or 'forgive' so as not to 'break up the family' in situations where they should be told to leave and leave now. That is a big part of what needs to change.

It's not so much women having better 'standards' as it is society's need to change.

True that.

Oh, and as others have mentioned, being single needs to be recognized by society as, not an 'alternative to', but as equal to being coupled.

I don't know why women have low standards, and didn't realise we actually do. None of the women I know have low standards, they are either happily married or single. Most of the women I know however are well educated and come from stable backgrounds, which is why they are able to be single if they aren't happily coupled.

I think it's all down to fathers sadly. All those men who treat their daughters as "princesses" while treating the girl's mother appallingly. Everyone, often including the mother, thinks the man's a hero because he's such a good, involved dad, whilst what he's actually doing is teaching her that this is what she should expect from a partner. And that's why, when she does leave, she goes for that kind of man again and again.

That's not the norm though.

For example academics and dv charities state abuse frequently doesn't start until pregnancy.

Abused people are more likely to be abused.
The abusive are well trained in picking out people that are more likely to be able to be abused
Combined it's hardly surprising that some men and women end up in a string of abusive relationships
I have 2 sisters and a mum all three have been in an abusive relationship, one of the three has been in repeated relationships that are abusive or bordering on abusive. I think she has had one positive relationship with a man in her life and that is her step father.
I have never been in an abusive relationship and am very vocal within my relationship that everything is just. I have however experience bullying at school and in the work place. There is always someone that will try to exploit you. More so if you are quiet and timid like I am. After the last time I said no more and I left an industry where it was rife. They will not be stronger than me.

Do you think this is standard behaviour of a lot of Mediterranean households? I ask this because my dp comes from a similar background with similar experiences. I notice that himself and his siblings are repeating damaging behaviour that they were brought up with, which I find frustrating. Screaming shouting seems to be the normal form of communication, even with very young children.

@AInightingale It’s true what you say.

Im happy to blame my menopause for my divorce.

By then my child was on the cusp of leaving home and all I was left with was an entitled bully. My ability to put up with thankless nurturing left the building.

Living on my own is such sweet heaven.

I've used Ms since I was 18 (late 30s now) and was still in an abusive relationship.

It wasn't about status or money for me. I earned a lot more than him and own my own house alone.

I don't think all women who stay in abusive relationships have low IQs.

I'm sick of relatives like this. Not because I'm scared of being left on the shelf (I've had plenty options) but their stupidness genuinely annoys me. I almost feel sorry for them and their simplistic, not to mention rude thinking. It would never occur to me to talk to someone like that. I'm 35. I've been engaged in an extremely dysfunctional relationship and in other relationships too. I'm feeling positive for the future and no miserable, inconsiderate people are going to get me down.

You are 100% right I know a feminist activist, super smart very articulate on the one hand she’ll go up to bat for women’s rights against all comers. Yet she’s coupled up with the man who raped and tortured her (he even did prison time for it), because in her mind she’s one of the few people capable of loving him, and as she’s told me she’s conditioned to forgive men like that. Sometimes she’s aware of the cognitive dissonance other times she’s completely under his spell.