Why do women have no standards?

[deeter]

Yes, men and their actions are the fundamental problem. I'm not shifting blame. But why are so many women choosing abusive men that are red flags from the get go? I understand the practicalities of leaving a toxic, enmeshed situation is not easy. What can we teach our daughters to prevent this from reoccurring? Why are so many women afraid of being single?

Trouble is OP a lot of red flags are much brighter in the rear view mirror. Yes people sometimes post with what seems like a giant one, but often this behaviour is buried under lovebombing etc and at the time doesn't seem obvious. Yes some women seem to be content with men that are shit from the start and there are likely a plethora of reasons for that; but choosing an abusive man isn't as simple as that.

I agree it's more about teaching sons.

Sadly, abusers are often good at spotting their 'marks', which is how come you get women who end up in these relationships time and again. They all look like good bets to start off with of course, maybe for quite some time. It starts off with him making you feel good, assuring you he's not like those other guys, making you feel safe... but then the undermining starts...

Yes, for a long time I thought 'How does this happen? Why can't they see it? Why don't they leave?' but I've learned more about these dynamics over time and I can see how it happens, even to women who are smart and capable and I think sometimes they become more vulnerable and not less.

I'm not here to tear you down @deeter . I just think you are blinkered to how easy it is to reinforce what you clearly want to change. The only way to make real change is to understand the problem. You are missing the point that despite your positive intentions you are judging women. If you, a strong independent woman, who has survived abusive, can subconsciously blame women, think how much blame there is out there?? That makes life even harder for women in abusive situations. Changing the narrative is essential.

not read the whole thread. my only qualification for contributing is being divorced myself at a time when I had very young children and having struggled and finally on our feet again 8 years later.

These are the reasons:

(1) women who are literally desperate to have babies;

(2) women who are older and offering more than just youth in a relationship being binned off by men as a result of a very active market of much younger women who are literally desperate to have babies such that they will do literally anything including getting pregnant by anyone who can ensure they have have babies a man who is willing. A lot of men are so desperate for sex they will go along with these much younger women; and

(3) the gender pay gap, which once a woman has had children becomes the massive gaping gender pay gap in the UK. This means an endless roundabout of (often younger) women who will put up with pretty much anything at all including the worst abuse for the sake of having a man who is prepared to give her a baby.

I honestly don’t know but it’s not just one thing is it.

I agree it’s two sided, girls need to be raised to uphold strong boundaries from a young age and boys need to be raised to respect women and also as a society we need to be better at demonstrating what we find acceptable and what is
not (so things like the new coercive control laws, revenge porn laws etc - they are steps in the right direction).

Maybe you're just a far better person. Is that what you want to hear?

I also think that that both men and women are equally liable for and guilty of using both as a distraction and as a distancing weapon in their relationships:

pornography (men); and
social media in the form of bikini selfies for the likes (women)

so that almost all relationships now start with a level of dysfunction previously not seen in society. Men inevitably do not have to step up (unless they are extremely lucky to have strong male role models from a very young age) so they don't step up and women follow suit.

Both are equally guilty.

In my case, my parents were very controlling, verbally and often physically abusive when I was a child and teenager.

When I got into a relationship that became abusive, it felt familiar so I stayed.

People who say it's easy to leave haven't been groomed to see abuse as normal.

My abusive ex was also a completely different person in public. Literally employee of the year.

"But why are so many women choosing abusive men that are red flags from the get go?"

I think a lot of girls think that dysfunctional behaviour (eg violence, hostility, rebellion, partying, what they see as a "skill" of coming back from a defeat eg hopping from job to job or failing at school and then getting some kind of well paid job even if temporarily)

Younger women interpret the above as evidence of sexual virility.

Some women believe so strongly that all of these dysfunctional behaviours are evidence of sexiness and virility that they are prepared no even willing and happy to be in relationships with men who beat them up or men who are in prison etc These things are not seen as a negative even from a very young age for these girls.

Its to do with their parents and their peer group at school/wanting to be popular.

Must be some sort of record. "Women do it too" was the SECOND post!

None of this applied to me. Mine had a stable job in investments - where I also worked.

It's a very common narrative in films and books and tv that getting a man is the goal. If a woman has dreams of a career the quite often she'll be 'cured' of this by the end of the film. It's background noise in all our lives.

Personality makes a lot of the difference imo. Also the ages you experience it, and who you encounter in your formative years makes huge differences.

My siblings and I were abused and neglect by our parents. They were in a highly toxic relationship where drugs, alcohol and horrific violence were just normal.

There are four of us siblings and we’ve all turned out very differently. My eldest brother is a carbon copy of my father. He has so far alienated two of his five children. The next down is so timid his wife had to send him for counselling to even have the confidence to pick his own clothes. My sister is cold toward people, trusts no one and goes through relationships. I’ve got a healthy marriage and healthy relationships with my children, which is very probably because I was the youngest so when we were taken by my grandparents I was younger, but also possibly because I was the only one that has had proper counselling. We were all offered it at the same time as adults but I was the only one that did it.

Cola2023 · Today 13:42 presumably you are no longer in a relationship with the man who had a stable job in investments.

And when you first got into a relationship with him you thought his negative / toxic behaviors (whatever they were/are - you will know) which contributed to the breakdown of your relationship - were sexy and appealing to you.

Along with toilet training, table manners, basic personal hygiene, how to behave in public AND the actual subjects that need to be taught by professionals?

What is this mythical 'parenting' I used to believe in?

WTF.

I went to therapy for years and had intervention from the police. I was not his first victim.

Goad someone else.

I only mentioned the curriculum as my fear is that it will be the most vulnerable girls in our society who won't have involved parents looking out for them/teaching them what is healthy. Who will help them? Are there charities that deal with this sort of thing? I would actually love to participate

All this.

Our society is still almost entirely structured around couples and families.

Being single can very hard.

People would rather be in a mediocre to abusive relationship than be single.

(And they don't even recognize a lot of abuse as abuse due to our values/standards).

They're scared of being alone as they age.

They can't afford to live comfortably alone.

Cola2023 · Today 13:51 I don't know your full story and am not goading you.
It was you yourself who volunteered the information that he had a "stable job in investments" i.e. that would be enough to make someone believe the person is a nice safe person to be in a relationship with?

I saw a brief interview with the parents of a woman who was killed by her boyfriend.
They said - she said he would change.
Incredibly sad.
I suspect many women think their violent boyfriend/husband will change so they stay.

Also, I do have to apologise to the women who have been abused on this thread for some of my callous wordings. Thanks for sharing your experiences. Wishing you all the very best.

You initially said women were attracted to men with bad jobs and low education, 'finding it sexy'. I said men from all backgrounds can be abusive.

He did work in investments. So did I. I also earn far more, so that wasn't a factor either.

Your comments are so misogynistic I have a hard time believing a woman is writing them.

Kids are RAISED in toxic situations. No amount of teaching them what a healthy relationship looks like can get rid of being essentially brain washed from birth. It takes knowing your perception is off, your values have to change. That kind of self improvement takes a lot of work. Not something that can be fixed in a lesson or two.

Men often aren’t abusive until after kids come along. Why would he be abusive when he has a happy, healthy, well rested woman who is contributing equal finances, prioritising his needs and dedicating lots of time and energy to him?

Then kids arrive. Pregnancy causes physical health issues and emotional upset. She’s no longer confident about her damaged body. She’s tired and depressed, and can barely cope with the kids, never mind have anything left over for him. She no longer wants sex due to the above. He becomes abusive because his needs are no longer being met, because she’s spending all of her energy trying to meet the baby’s needs.

And the big one - kids are a lot of work and he doesn’t want to do his share. He tries to dump it all on her, and if she resists he becomes abusive… and if she doesn’t resist it damages her earning capacity and he becomes abusive about having to support her.

Until you have kids it’s very difficult to separate the decent men from the selfish ones who will become abusive. And after you have kids it’s difficult to escape if the father has turned out to be abusive.

I think firstly the OP is being unfair on most women who actually don't have rock bottom standards.

The ones that do have either had a dysfunctional childhood so so blinded by their 'need' to have kids they look the other way on all sorts of red flags until they are 2 kids deep.