Daughter rejection :(

[James365]

Hi, let me start by stating that I’m not looking for sympathy and understanding. I just want to get this off my chest and listen to any advice that may be on offer.

To cut a very long story short, my now 20 year old daughter wants nothing to do with me. This has gone on for ten years and has even gone through the courts when she was younger. I don’t feel like I’ve done anything wrong to cause this. In fact, quite the opposite.

At the end of the day, what point would there be in me writing an anonymous post on this forum if it was full of lies? So please, dear reader, bear with me...

I come from a very stable and healthy background with good morals, strong work ethics and I believe I brought my daughter up well. Her mother meanwhile has been in and out of mental institutions all her life and at one point even admitted to the police her intentions to take my daughter’s life. My belief is that since our divorce 12 years ago, my ex wife has manipulated my daughter through jealousy and her own mental condition to turn her against me. I’ve been reading about Children with Narcissistic Parental Alienation Syndrome along with Children with Personality Disorders and this pretty much sums this all up.

During the past ten years, I don’t feel like I’ve interfered or gone out of my way to cause any problems. But each time I’ve tried to rebuild relations with my daughter I’m eventually met with rejection. This has lasted for so long because I’ve been determined not to give up. However, my daughter has now expressly told me once and for all that she wants nothing more to do with me. Why? Who knows?! I honestly have absolutely no idea. I know for a fact I’m not a bad person. I don’t drink, smoke or take drugs. I have always had a very good and stable job and have never shunned my responsibilities.

I have another daughter with whom I have a perfectly normal relationship with which goes even further in trying to justify my other daughter’s decision. It’s all very frustrating.

So now here’s the crunch. This is the bit that’s made me want to write this post. Despite my daughter’s complete rejection, she is still expecting me to pay her mobile phone bill. It may not seem like much. And money-wise, it isn’t a lot. But in principal I’m struggling to get my head around the cheek of it. She doesn’t want anything to do with me but still expects me to put my hand in my pocket. This is coming from a 20 year old woman who is perfectly capable of getting a job on the side of her uni studies to pay for things like this. Not to mention my late father leaving her a five-figure sum in his will 2 years ago.

Do you see where I’m coming from? Am I being unreasonable to expect her to pay for her own phone use?

It’s pointless having a conversation with her mother and she just repeats how poor she is herself (despite taking regular overseas holidays) and can’t believe that I would even consider stopping paying for the phone bill.

I’m at the point now where I’m considering altering my will to write my daughter out and leave everything to my other daughter. When I eventually die, there will be a considerable sum left behind and I’m struggling to understand why my daughter that has rejected me for ten years should in any way benefit from it. Do you?

Thank you for reading.

Another one. Don't see this on threads from women asking the same thing. Double standards.

Different perspective here.

My parents divorced when I was 7. Before that time, I have lovely memories of my Father. He was my best friend, my superhero and just a good Dad in a child's eyes.

Following the divorce he changed in that he started to pursue a 'single life' which meant he didn't show up on his visitation days, he forgot special days like our birthdays, the times we were together he didn't make any effort anymore to do anything my siblings and I. In addition to this, he didn't pay anything towards our upbringing - meaning we struggled so much throughout our young life.

Then one day, the contact and effort stopped altogether as he announced he was moving to another country. For many years I wondered..why doesn't he get in touch now...I'm 16? Why doesn't he get in touch now I'm 20? Why doesn't he get in touch now - I'm a parent now. Then one day I just gave up thinking in that way. He could be dead and I wouldn't even know.

What I am trying to say is - you are not being unreasonable to feel how you do, but from a daughter's perspective - please hang in there - don't stop making the effort and don't cut ties completely - there may be a day as she matures that she wants to build bridges, you need to keep that possibility open. If not, you will give her more reason to validate the untrue things that have been said about you.

This is just from my lived experience but I appreciate everyone has a different and probably more insightful perspective.

Just to add, you keep saying that it would be pointless to make things up but people make things up all the time to protect themselves. You have an image of yourself that you need to uphold and I get the feeling that you aren’t a very reflective and authentic type of person, hence your reliance on your income/good job to uphold your image of yourself as a morally upstanding citizen. I know several people who fall to pieces when the image they’ve created for themselves is threatened.

I couldn’t imagine ever disinheriting my children. Falling out with me or not wanting to talk to me would not stop me from wanting them to have a stable, happy life.
I would also want to support them through their education as much as possible. Whether that’s paying for their phone, buying them groceries or doing some laundry for them. Yes, students can and do work, but it’s such a short but important chapter in their life, anything a parent can help with, personally I think they should. So yes, I think continuing to pay the phone contract until she leaves uni and gets a job is a good thing to do.
None of us can judge whether your daughter is unreasonable for not wanting to speak to you. But punishing her is not going to fix that. And if you’re as decent a person as you claim to be, you would want the best for her regardless of how she feels about you.

Exactly! It's really pissing me off how many are commenting on the one-sided story - how the actual fuck are you going to get the other side?

I don't think there's enough information to go on to offer a balanced response.

Your post has the slight sense of arrogance and superiority that the highest earners sometimes have. It stands out to me because my ex-husband is like this. It's more challenging to deal with him now - due to the children - than it ever was when we were together!
Were you a cheat too?
Sorry OP, if I'm way off the mark.
Only you know the truth about whether you've always genuinely tried to do right by your daughter (and her mum, who is also part of the package whether you like it or not).

Double standards? Different ones maybe. It's a majority female site and over time, certain stories become familiar. It would get quite tedious to post on every single thread that there's two sides to every story. However on a man's post about his crazy ex and how he did nothing wrong, I think it's a legit point.

You can’t blame a 20 year old for 10 years of rejection. For the first 8 of those she was a child of divorce and being primarily cared for by a mother with severe MH issues.

I’m not saying you are a monster OP but you do need some more compassion here. I think financial support until she graduates is reasonable in the circumstances given that that is generally expected of parents.

I pay my 20 year old student DC's phone bill too. I don't think you should stop.

My mother- in her 70s now- had mental health/personality issues- so very draining for those around her- she's pretty good at reining it in now as this is the only way she can have a relationship with me (deep down I know she thinks she's done nothing wrong though!)
It took me until I was about 28 for the scales to fall from my eyes, for me to see just how difficult a person she was. I always thought she was uniquely unlucky, the world was against her.
Hopefully the penny will drop for your daughter in the next few years
As you say, there's no point in lying on an anonymous forum, so I'm just going to go with what you've said
children can easily be groomed/manipulated by a parent- I know I was
I think I would keep paying the phone bill and keep her in the will for now: 20 is still very young- she's a kid, really- so much could change and if she's anything like I was, she's likely very immature/insecure at present.

So do I.

Sure I would. But whether or not I would doesn’t change OP’s story. As plenty of others have said, it would be a rare case indeed where there’s nothing the adult in this situation could have done differently, or where a bit of self-reflection wouldn’t have helped.

I find it telling that your question is not "does anyone have any advice on how I can rebuild my relationship with my daughter" but "can I stop paying her phone bill".

It's beyond ridiculous to expect to get two sides of any story on a forum like this, and the comments are just tedious.

So from you post:
You are perfect in every way and completely innocent, but you want to stop the very last thing you do for your daughter and cut her off from the small amount of financial assistance you give her.
Your ex is mentally unwell and is poor so you think that makes her the worst parent.
You believe that your daughter has been manipulated to cause parental alienation because that must be the ONLY explanation, because it can’t be anything to do with you, as we have established you are perfect and stable.
And yet you think your ex is the narcissist??
FYI Narcissists usually give their partner mental health problems and 9/10 children become estranged from their narcissistic parent. Perhaps reflect on that.

Women are often asked on here what the other side of the story is.

I think the OP is getting resistance from some posters because it’s an extremely common story and it goes like this: my child has cut me off and refuses to have anything to do with me, I’m so hurt, I’ve no idea why they would do this. Sometimes with a side order of: I’ve never put a foot wrong in my parenting, or, it’s all someone else poisoning them against me.

Now, there might even be cases where some version of this story is true. Personally I’ve never seen one. Need for parents and for their approval is hardwired into us, it’s a survival thing, and no child chooses to cut off a parent without extreme pain and difficulty. And most or all abusive or otherwise inadequate parents tell the above narrative - I’ve no idea why s/he did it and I don’t deserve it.

I suppose that if they were the sort of parent who could listen and take feedback and admit they hadn’t always got it right and ask for forgiveness… if they were the sort of parent who cared more about keeping a loving relationship going than being right or setting standards or money… then their child probably wouldn’t be considering cutting them off.

So estranged parents coming and saying they’ve no idea why their child doesn’t want to speak to them and it’s all someone else’s fault is a bit of a red flag for many of us.

https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html

I totally understand your irritation over the mobile phone bill, but if you can afford it then consider saying to her that you are deeply hurt that she doesn't want to see you but because you love her you will continue to pay it and be there for her if / when she changes her mind.
Refusing to pay the phone bill might push her into rejecting you further.
Horrible situation but you will need to be the bigger person here.

Excellent post.

In many cases, like this one, it's obvious that there are many things going on that the OP isn't considering and hasn't thought fit to mention.

We're not saying it so other readers realise it, but so that he does.

*forevaworried

Social services/courts wouldn’t have left a child with a mentally unstable narcissist if they didn’t feel she wasn’t the most suitable parent for the job. Not saying social services get it 100% right every time but there must be a reason why you weren’t made the primary carer. Either you were deemed even more unsuitable than the mum, or you didn’t want to be primary caregiver, which would make sense given you seem very focused on career success/all the good stable stuff going for you. Did you really want sole custody? To give up your social life, go part time with work, miss out on promotions, pay for childcare, revolve your life around 10yo? Is that what you tried to do? Because not many dads would want to do this after separating from the mother. They don’t want the hard work but are happy enough to slag off the mum to everyone play the victim and blame her for the poor quality father-daughter relationship that ensues*

As the daughter in this situation who had a mother who would talk about joint suicides and when she was going to do it and once would crushed up her Mogadon and mixed it in my food. (I made my own food from a young age as I didn’t trust her to not poison me)and was in and out of psychiatric hospitals as she would be ok for a few days then the descent into Hell would start until 9-12 weeks later she would be sectioned and I would be put into the care system until my mother was declared “cured” then handed back to her for it all to start again
SS certainly hand children a key to wholly unsuitable parents

She's said she wants nothing to do with you. Unfortunately you have to accept it. That means cutting off any financial help. She's a grown woman and can pay for herself.

Or it could be you predisposed (like a few other posters here) to putting the boot into any men that post here, but will give women the benefit of the doubt.

Yeah, I don't believe you. I you really loved your daughter the last thing you'd be trying to do is ostracise her further right at the point that she's gaining more independence from her supposedly controlling mother.

Most people don't cut out a parent without a seriously good reason.

She probably has mental health issues. My family used to look after this lady with mental health problems, she lived with us. She on the surface was a white middle class lady and if you spoke to her you wouldn't think anything was wrong. Except she had a personality disorder and would make stuff up all the time. She was also estranged from her parents. Whilst some of the things about her parents may be true I have no doubt that it's been exaggerated.

I see threads all the time where people have said there must be a reason why your child doesn't want to see you. However from my experience, some people do just make stuff up in their heads. A friend of my mum has a son that doesn't want anything to do with her. She was saying that why should I put son in my will if he's claiming I never did anything for him. I wouldn't put your daughter in the will if she doesn't want a relationship with you.

The phone bill is a tricky one as others have said she may be thinking if you pay for the bill then it shows you care. I'd probably pay for the bill and keep trying to have a relationship. Only when you have a proper relationship, then I would add her back to the will.

If you’re looking for entertainment then you should probably look elsewhere.