Daughter rejection :(

[James365]

Hi, let me start by stating that I’m not looking for sympathy and understanding. I just want to get this off my chest and listen to any advice that may be on offer.

To cut a very long story short, my now 20 year old daughter wants nothing to do with me. This has gone on for ten years and has even gone through the courts when she was younger. I don’t feel like I’ve done anything wrong to cause this. In fact, quite the opposite.

At the end of the day, what point would there be in me writing an anonymous post on this forum if it was full of lies? So please, dear reader, bear with me...

I come from a very stable and healthy background with good morals, strong work ethics and I believe I brought my daughter up well. Her mother meanwhile has been in and out of mental institutions all her life and at one point even admitted to the police her intentions to take my daughter’s life. My belief is that since our divorce 12 years ago, my ex wife has manipulated my daughter through jealousy and her own mental condition to turn her against me. I’ve been reading about Children with Narcissistic Parental Alienation Syndrome along with Children with Personality Disorders and this pretty much sums this all up.

During the past ten years, I don’t feel like I’ve interfered or gone out of my way to cause any problems. But each time I’ve tried to rebuild relations with my daughter I’m eventually met with rejection. This has lasted for so long because I’ve been determined not to give up. However, my daughter has now expressly told me once and for all that she wants nothing more to do with me. Why? Who knows?! I honestly have absolutely no idea. I know for a fact I’m not a bad person. I don’t drink, smoke or take drugs. I have always had a very good and stable job and have never shunned my responsibilities.

I have another daughter with whom I have a perfectly normal relationship with which goes even further in trying to justify my other daughter’s decision. It’s all very frustrating.

So now here’s the crunch. This is the bit that’s made me want to write this post. Despite my daughter’s complete rejection, she is still expecting me to pay her mobile phone bill. It may not seem like much. And money-wise, it isn’t a lot. But in principal I’m struggling to get my head around the cheek of it. She doesn’t want anything to do with me but still expects me to put my hand in my pocket. This is coming from a 20 year old woman who is perfectly capable of getting a job on the side of her uni studies to pay for things like this. Not to mention my late father leaving her a five-figure sum in his will 2 years ago.

Do you see where I’m coming from? Am I being unreasonable to expect her to pay for her own phone use?

It’s pointless having a conversation with her mother and she just repeats how poor she is herself (despite taking regular overseas holidays) and can’t believe that I would even consider stopping paying for the phone bill.

I’m at the point now where I’m considering altering my will to write my daughter out and leave everything to my other daughter. When I eventually die, there will be a considerable sum left behind and I’m struggling to understand why my daughter that has rejected me for ten years should in any way benefit from it. Do you?

Thank you for reading.

Maybe she has mental health problems. They are hereditary. How does she feel about her upbringing? Does she resent being left to cope with her mother? Did you go for full custody? Worrying about the phone bill seems a bit petty in the circumstances.

There's your truth, her truth and the real truth.

Keep paying her phone bill, keep her in your will.

Life's too short.

Thanks to everyone that's replied.

Yes, I fully understand this is a one-sided reflection on how I feel. I'm aware of that. But nobody here knows who I am and it'd be therefore pointless to make up stories.

It's been a very frustrating ten years with social services deciding the children should stay with their mother despite my arguments. It's been totally illogical. The mother is very well known to all mental health agencies locally but was still judged to be the suitable parent despite there being absolutely no concerns about me. It actually beggared belief. The court decided I had to go along with my daughter's wishes not to see me as she was 15 at the time and judged mature enough to make a decision.

I firmly believe that somewhere amongst all this is a terrified young lady who desperately doesn't want to do anything to upset her mum as she knows the consequences could be bad if she 'steps out of line'. Subsequently, this has lasted for so long that it's become ingrained in her mind.

I have always supported both daughters financially without question. I'm very lucky that my finances aren't the problem here. It's the principal between right and wrong and downright selfish.

I would pay the bill until uni ends and then no more help . Unless you are helping her with uni costs too ?
your daughter obviously did well enough to study and have a plan so I feel something is missing here . What is she blaming you for and for sure you asked her why she wants no contact ? Does her sister speak with her ? What does she say ?

Stop paying an adult's phone bill, sure.

You should continue to try to rebuild the relationship however, and you should not cut her out of your will. Relationships and inheritance should not be based on her doing only what you want. Your whole story is very suspect to be honest, if her mother was so ill then why did you not have custody? How have you been a good father with her not speaking much to you for 10 years? You need to look much harder at the criticisms she has of you and try to be better.

Keep paying the phone bill.

If you love your daughter then keep that connection going even if it is just paying a bill.

It sounds like she had a pretty challenging childhood and 20 is still young.
Maybe she doesn't really trust that you care about her (and to be honest your post is all about how great you are and how unfair it is and not really about a child with a mentally ill mother stuck in a horrible situation that she cannot control).

If you love her and care about her, keep that one connection going and maybe she will slowly come to see that you do care about her and there is something to build on.

Flounce off and tell her you don't care and there will never be the chance of having a relationship.

I doubt she is rubbing her hands saying "great, that idiot is paying my bill". She is probably more likely thinking "I don't feel worthy of love and nothing in my parents behaviour suggests I am loveable but maybe if he pays, he does care a little bit"

I find it interesting that there are so many people calling out the one-sided nature of the post, when every single thread-starter in AIBU is just as one-sided - it's the self-selecting nature of this section in its entirety - and 99% of them don't get that kind of response.

And, for what it's worth, this is a surprisingly common story - I personally know three men whose daughters have declared, for entirely spurious (and laughable) reasons, that they never want to see them again. Knowing the families and the backstories, it seems there's a certain kind of social group where there's a competition to see who's had the most traumatic life, and at some point all the stories that have been told need to be backed up with real-life action...and no daughter thinks their father will ever just give up on trying, just like this guy hasn't (up until now, at least). All three of them were exactly this, and I find it really bloody weird that I've come across quite a few more of them when looking into it. Always the daughters, always the fathers, always around 18-22 years of age.

Worth noting that in all three of the ones I know personally, the daughters came back a few years later admitting that it was all a load of rubbish.

Ultimately, though, the details or believability don't make a difference either way - daughter wants no contact, but is quite happy with the "contact" of paying for her phone. That's a hard "nope" from me, basic human decency dictates that you don't get one without the other.

Two wrongs don’t make a right, keep paying the bill and don’t give up on her.

you had the ability to escape living with her mother, she was a child and didn’t have that chance.

Don’t give up on her, keep being kind and don’t change who you are because of the way they have treated you.
Keep doing the right thing. Good luck.

No child wants to go NC with their parent.

You are almost certainly the problem but you seem to think that you are perfect.

The fact that you're willing to cut you daughter out of the will shows me exactly who you are.

So you think your DD is emotionally manipulated and abused by her mother and your response to this is to ostracize her further, give her fewer options for getting away and financially punish her?

Don’t let your hurt be the thing that drives your decision making here. It’s not your fault that your DD is the way she is, but you seem to think it isn’t her fault either. If you would pay for your other DD’s phone, pay for this one too. Don’t cut her out of your will.

Social services/courts wouldn’t have left a child with a mentally unstable narcissist if they didn’t feel she wasn’t the most suitable parent for the job. Not saying social services get it 100% right every time but there must be a reason why you weren’t made the primary carer. Either you were deemed even more unsuitable than the mum, or you didn’t want to be primary caregiver, which would make sense given you seem very focused on career success/all the good stable stuff going for you. Did you really want sole custody? To give up your social life, go part time with work, miss out on promotions, pay for childcare, revolve your life around 10yo? Is that what you tried to do? Because not many dads would want to do this after separating from the mother. They don’t want the hard work but are happy enough to slag off the mum to everyone play the victim and blame her for the poor quality father-daughter relationship that ensues.

I firmly believe that somewhere amongst all this is a terrified young lady who desperately doesn't want to do anything to upset her mum as she knows the consequences could be bad if she 'steps out of line'. Subsequently, this has lasted for so long that it's become ingrained in her mind.

In that case, I think you need to continue to support her.

She's only 20 and those of us with difficult mothers can take decades to recognise and unpick the manipulative behaviours that were part and parcel of our upbringing. I'm 48 and still working through it, with mixed results. If I had a DM that threw consequences like that at me, I'd be fucking terrified.

Stop paying her phone bill. I wouldn;t expect that at her age even if you had a great relationship. Do what you want with your will. But from your tone and comments about yourself and your ex, you sound as if you feel yourself superior to others and, although it is possible you are the innocent party, it is likely you had more to do with the current state of affairs that you would admit.

My ex is a domestic abuser that forced my daughter and I to flee after he punched me in the face. I had to leave him because if I didn't, someone would have got killed.
He would tell you that I am the domestic abuser, I punched him and I am now preventing him from seeing his daughter (even though the Court ordered supervised contact..
You can say what you want to say, doesn't mean people will believe it.
In my mind, children just don't suddenly go NC with their parents.

I'm not commenting on the actual relationship, as readers here we don't know anything and I am aware of how brutal parental alienation can be. Equally, even if the DD is justified there are some parents (one of my own included) who will never understand their own part in events as they lack capacity to take responsibility.

I will say I have been NC with my mum since I was about your daughter's age. I want nothing from her, and that includes financially. I sent back a significant sun of money my grandmother tried to bribe me with to talk to her.

If you are NC with a parent that includes everything, emotional and financial. I'd never expect any inheritance, and to be frank I wouldn't accept it and would probably give it to my sister (who does still talk to her, although it is very messy and turbulent)

I don't think anyone means that you'd be making up stories. Just that you naturally see things your way, putting yourself in the most favourable light. And course this is always the case in posts as a PP says, but it does feel more apt to flag it in a case where all the OP is saying how beyond reproach they've been yet all these other agencies have judged otherwise. Anyway, if you do indeed believe that there's a terrified young lady at the heart of this story, then I absolutely wouldn't cut her out of your will. Rise above the current and historical shit and all you can do is be there for the longer term.

Did you leave her mother for another woman?
did you have an affair? If so maybe that explains the mental health issues.
did you pay proper maintenance every month without fail to her mother?

I know for a fact my DH has done everything he can to have contact with his child, but they have decided (teenager) that they simply do not want contact. There are reasons but they aren’t caused by my DH - such as he is a lot stricter with manners, lying, cleaning bedroom etc than the mum. He won’t tolerate their problematic behaviour and holds them accountable for their actions, which they don’t like.

DH is a good and fair person and cares deeply for his child. He is also devastated by the turn of events but there’s nothing he can do beyond keep asking to see them / checking they’re ok etc.

So yes there are times where through no real fault, kids side with one of the parents and that’s that.

I agree it’s not usually the full story. But it can be.

YANBU to stop paying the phone bill. I’d give her a couple months notice and I wouldn’t tie it back to her not seeing you, just simply say “I’ll cover your phone until Xmas but next year you’ll have to pay it yourself”

Don't cut her out of your will, it creates a bunch of legal problems and will destroy her relationship with her sister. My DH experienced this after his sister forced his mum to do it, and we can't get get his infant medical records which is a huge issue because he had a childhood illness that can be inherited.

His mum would have written a similar account to yours, which is why people are skeptical, yet she was a physically and emotionally abusive parent who made zero apologies for her reign of terror. I'm not suggesting you did the same, but many narcissistic parents have a similar 'no fault' story that is very far from reality.

If you really love your daughter then do everything you can at the moment to keep that little connection.
It may be that the upbringing she had makes her mature a bit later than her peers. She may come back to you in a couple of years if you really haven’t done anything wrong.

I firmly believe that somewhere amongst all this is a terrified young lady who desperately doesn't want to do anything to upset her mum as she knows the consequences could be bad if she 'steps out of line.

Then you wouldn't be considering disinheriting her out of spite.

There's more to this. I obviously don't know what, but this makes me think you aren't really as compassionate and selfless as you claim to be. I'm not saying there's a goodie and a baddie here, but the story is definitely more complex than you're suggesting. You talk about your ex's mental health issues but you chose to have two kids with her. And you clearly favour one daughter and see her as the proof you've done nothing wrong, rather than the rejected daughter as evidence you might not have done everything right.

I don't know what's going on. I just know that we don't know all of it, or enough of it.

Going to go against the grain here because I have some experience growing up in similar circumstances. My DM spent lots of time in mental institutions, and she hated my Dad, when I was a teenager I started to reject him too, and turned against him. It took until I had grown up to realise not everything I had been told was true and started to reconnect with my Dad.
Your DD hasn't had an easy time of it, with her parents splitting up and her mother's mental health issues.
I'd keep paying the bill if I were you.

There are reasons but they aren’t caused by my DH - such as he is a lot stricter with manners, lying, cleaning bedroom etc than the mum. He won’t tolerate their problematic behaviour and holds them accountable for their actions, which they don’t like.

Bigger picture-wise, the parents created these kids then split up and created two separate homes with separate rules and that can be very hard for kids to negotiate. That's no big revelation, but it's a shade of grey to add into the mix, rather than 'the dad is good and fair with these rules they don't like because they're liars, lazy and messy so prefer to side with the lax mum who permits it'. These are sad, complicated situations that can do a lot of damage all round. Believing that one of the parents hasn't caused it doesn't help I don't think. Better to accept some responsibility and try to be accepting of others' flaws too and hopefully find a way through in the end.

I'm not sure the 'love me or you won't get any money' approach will work.

Hazarding a guess that your child has had to go through a lot with her mother's mental illness, and from her perspective you left, and don't seem very complimentary about her mother.

It's clear that you have a difficult history with the mother but there must have been something you saw in her, once. Your 'I'm stable and upstanding and morally upright whereas she's chaotic and a nightmare' thing seems smug and judgmental, even if it is true. Mental illness isn't someone's fault. I think if you have that attitude to her mother, your daughter might well not welcome you with open arms.

You're waiting for the world to judge you as the righteous one, you need to grow past that and just focus on what you can do to build a good relationship with your daughters. They're made half out of you, half out of her. If you make out your ex is bad, you're making out that they're half bad.

You mention her uni studies but not that you're contributing towards that. The couple of grand she got two years ago won't go far when there are tuition and housing to pay. If a phone bill is all you're paying, that's not much really.

I think you need to try for more contact and actually listen instead of lecturing and trying to always put your point across to try to 'win'.