If you are anti-Zionist, what do you think Israel should do?

[Poudretteite]

Should Israel open its borders? Be given back to the Palestinian people? Where should the Jewish people go? What about the high risk of genocide?

Interested to hear as many people over the last few days have said they are anti-Zionist and that it's different to antisemitism.

@Trulywonderful you didn't answer
In your post you put up a picture which says that jews are barred from praying at their holiest site. Which seems to be a grevience for you. Which holiest site are you referring to Which you believe the Palestinian authority should let the Jews pray in?

She was pointing out that you can't impose multiculturalism on another region, and that the majority of countries in that region don't want it

No, you can’t. But it can and has been done was my only point. FWIW I don’t think that’s the case here in 2023 in Israel. I said that in my first post on this thread. But it is actually something we should strive towards, however impossible that may be right now.

According to what I've read about the history of the Jews, and Judaism in the Land of Israel, it has its origins in the 2nd millennium BCE, when Israelites emerged as an outgrowth of southern Canaanites

It was not the Jews who refused to live in equality or to share

If by the Jews you mean the Israeli’s then equality and sharing are not notions that spring to mind.

They were the ones who were happy to share, who just happened to end up with almost all of the land (what luck!). Some of it isn’t rightfully theirs but they’re going to give back any day now…

I think that this is a really good question. The free Palestine marches are very naive. Previously I would have supported the Palestinian cause, but after the events of the last week, how can they possibly be freed right now.

So long term I would say to stop developments in the west bank and remove them/sign them over to Palestine. Possibly accept women and children refugees into Israel. If at all possible, then ideally place women and children in communities alongside Jewish families, although that's probably very unrealistic.

The two state solution has failed so many times. Gaza and The West Bank are so geographically separate (and won't accept each others rule). So I would separate Palatine into 2 different countries (which they effectively are) and I would expand Gaza to give them more land. You certainly can't expect free passage from Gaza to the West Bank through Israel any more. Or I would see if the USA would take the current Israeli population. Of course none of these would really work as they are far too simplistic and far reaching. no one is going to be able to crack this. In all likelihood it will result in a full out war where one side obliterates the other or both get so tired/weary of war that there is a temporary peace for a few years.

It isn't about my attitude to multiculturalism.

It is about theirs

The people of Gaza haven't expressed they want to live multiculturally. They haven't said they want to be Peckham

Really? Like really? Have you ever read a history book?

if you actually don’t know rather than just being goody you really need to pick up some books and start reading !!

Although I refuse to believe that anyone could not understand this point.

Maireas It was actually the Israeli defence minister who called Palestinians animals I was merely quoting and I was joking about the Mormons. However to stop the blood shed either Palestinians have to be absorbed my Arab countries or Israelis have to be absorbed by the west. Arab countries have so many tensions it would make far more sense for a Jewish state in America. Israel is practically American anyway and so many are dual nationalities. It will never happen but it would be the best solution all round.

Are you seriously suggesting that the Ottomans from Anatolia are the same as Palestinians from the Levant? These are two different ethnicities, with different languages and cultures.

It’s a bit like conflating the English with the Italians…

Well Hamas have certainly stated that they are not interested in living multi culturally

That is current Israelis.

Jews are indigenous to Judea (Israel)

They were there a thousand years before Islam existed.

@Antst

You seem to be only taking your history from post 1930s. The dreadful fact is that the Palestinian cause only exists to wipe out a Jewish state. As people have previously pointed out- despite the fact that this area of the Levant has been continuously contested for over two thousand year by various factions (Persians/Greeks/ Romans/ Byzantium/ Ottomans) the area is the traditional homeland of the Jewish people.

And there has already been a two state solution. It was Isreal and the Kingdom of Jordan. As others have already pointed out the idea of being ‘Palestinian’ was co-opted by Arafat. It is the Greek name for The Land of the Philestines.

If you want to talk ‘invasion’ and war crimes. How about the fact that the Arab League could have agreed to the original two state plan and would therefore had kept a much, much larger area- including huge swathes of what is now Israel. But they were too anti-Semitic to agree and instead declared war.

The history of this conflict is that the Arab nationals never wanted Israel to exist and have poured money into the cause of wiping it out. ‘Free Palestine’ is just a cover for rabid anti- Jewish state sentiments. The Jewish people who moved there weren’t invaders. Any more than the Syrians, Egyptians or other Arab peoples who moved there at the same time were invaders.

They weren’t in 1988, but they have been since at least 2005.

Maybe they were illustrating the never ending persecution Jews have faced throughout history and how they have coped with it. This is the fundamental point as to why Israel is necessary and why it should be where it is.

Yeah cos a meme is just the ticket.. Your own figures disprove that particular rewrite of history

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jewish-and-non-jewish-population-of-israel-palestine-1517-present

Go on, a Wikipedia source is better than the volumes of creative writing being written on here. Suddenly all the historians are coming out to play when a few days ago it was all whataboutery to talk about the history

So were the Palestinians. Sorry but it’s true.

https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/israelis-and-palestinians-are-both-indigenous-and-why-that-matters/

Their 2017 charter indicates otherwise

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/hamas-2017-document-full

I don’t disagree with Israel existing as a State or the fact that Jewish people are indigenous to the region, but that wasn’t the thrust of the series posts in my opinion. It seemed to be arguing that Israel are justified in expelling the Palestinians or forcing them to live in apartheid because of the Ottomans.

Thats a bit like those British who justify the British Empire because of what the Romans did to us. Bizzarre reasoning.

I mean Jews, who were there for 3000 years and subjugated and murdered by the Greeks, then the Romans, then the Ottomans and would still be in that position now if not for Israel.

Absolutely no one was arguing that, as you know.

You need the context to go along with the charter.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas

I didn’t say anyone was arguing that?

Where did I suggest that?

I said they were living under Ottoman rule. Which they were. Everyone was.

So why have Jewish people faced persecution throughout history?

If that was your interpretation you might want to re read