Is it ok to tell her to hit them back?

[Comeonthenproperautumn]

Is it ok to tell my 5 year old Dd that if someone hits her, to hit them back?
Ive been saying this to my Dd, but part of me feels strange saying it.
I can’t protect my child when I’m not there and can’t 100% trust other adults are fully protecting her, is it ok to start building this resilience in her?

In that case 'TheCunctator' it would seem that you don't live in the same world that a lot of MNetters do, where schools appear to be breeding grounds for bullying, and kids have to learn to stand up for themselves or go under. Personally, I hate violence, but think that when raising a child, if they are facing violence, and it is NOT dealt well with by the school, then the child who is being bullied should be encouraged to stand up for themself, and not just sit back waiting for an adult to sort things out, especially if they have asked for help previously and it isn't forthcoming.

I've had three children at a total of six schools, and there was not one single instance of pupils having punch-ups

I call bull-shit on this comment. I doubt there’s a school anywhere on the planet that hasn’t had a scrap in it at some point. I have policed for a long time and am aware of all sorts of issues at all types of schools - including private schools. So wise up. Nobody is saying it’s great to be involved in physical violence. No one is saying that schools shouldn’t crack down on bullying. People are saying there may come a time when you cannot go running to an adult for help and it’s better if you have some resources to deal with it rather than standing there like a lemon. If they’ve got a weapon then they’re serious aren’t they and you’d better do something. Doing something is better than nothing always - if you get your head kicked in YOU WERE ALWAYS going to get your head kicked in. Self defence is enshrined in law for a reason.

should be encouraged to stand up for themself,

Of course they should. That doesn't only mean hitting though.

not just sit back waiting for an adult to sort things out,

They don't have to do this either. They aren't the only options!

There are practical steps - avoid being alone with an aggressive child, repeatedly report to their parent and teacher, say no loudly and clearly - and there is the role of the parent. If my DC was in a school where violence was the norm, I'd do something about it - quickly, consistently & definitively.

@Divebar2021

If they have a weapon, fighting back is your recommendation?

Give me strength.

If they have a weapon, get away from there, fast. Call authorities while doing so.

My DC secondary school has never had an incident involving a weapon.

And OP's child is 5, so .,,

In that case 'TheCunctator' it would seem that you don't live in the same world that a lot of MNetters do, where schools appear to be breeding grounds for bullying, and kids have to learn to stand up for themselves or go under

Thank God for that.

People can call bullshit all they like. I am sorry if your own experience is so tainted that you think it impossible that someone else's experience could be different and better. No school is perfect, and no child is perfect - but my experience and that of my children is not that of those on this thread who are advocating violence as a means of "self defence".

I'm concerned that you have to have this conversation regularly. I have a 5 year old and I've not had to have a conversation about people hitting him. There are times when he's complained of people being unkind and taking things but not hitting.

If someone's hitting them, you need to ask the teacher. At 5, unless there are additional needs (which could very well be the case, in which case I think restraining or running to a teacher is more appropriate), they're old enough to know not to hit and I'd be raising it with the teacher.

^^ this

It may well escalate - but a bully goes for an easy target - they usually won’t pick on people who routinely give them a taste of their own medicine back. And there is plenty of anecdotal evidence on this thread, and the million others like it, that says it does solve bullying - and often stops it in its tracks. Unlike the ‘schools do nothing’ line that is also very common.

Taking away your child’s ability to retaliate makes them open to any arsehole that wants to physically mess about with them with impunity.

I think it’s ‘idiotic’ to empower the bully over your own child.

If they have a weapon, fighting back is your recommendation?

if running away is an option then take it absolutely but what happens if you’re cornered and can’t run away? What’s your tactics then?

That's a great idea

This is not a bully. This is a five year old who hasn't learned to regulate their emotions and is dealing with it by lashing out.

You tell her to tell an adult.

To shout loudly "STOP, THAT HURT ME!". And then go find an adult.

And failing all else, if she's backed into a corner, to put both her hands out flat and push the other child away. Then go find an adult.

It’s a very good idea to say the attackers name, and have a clear escalation. When supervising it makes you far more likely that you won’t jump to the wrong conclusion.

Yanbu. In the eyes of the law, an adult is allowed to use reasonable force to protect themselves. Why should the same rule not apply to children?

If you have spoken with the school and the issues aren't resolved, reasonable force should be used.

I * think it’s ‘idiotic’ to empower the bully over your own child.*

Sure. Because that's what I said 🙄

Everything I wrote covered how to disempower bullies - just not by hitting, which will not help

And by the way, the bullies not going after someone who can stand up for themself? Correct - but that's not necessarily about their willingness to 'hit' - it's their confidence, self-esteem & presence. The vulnerable child who decides to 'hit' because they are told to will still be a target

I think there’s a lot of “well MY child would never” “in our school they didn’t” etc.

BE REAL. Lots and lots of toddlers go through hitting/biting stages that are NOTHING to do with wealth and class. SOME parents don’t manage this effectively; again regardless of wealth and class. The result is that SOME five year olds are still hitting, and although it is a normal ish stage of childhood development, for the victims it is just as traumatic as assault as an adult. When they are then told that “Jayden didn’t mean it, did you Jayden?” And told to go off and play nicely they feel injustice. And if it keeps happening, pretty soon they learn that nobody cares and nobody is going to help them. That’s when they start avoiding others and disliking school. Obviously, it would be preferable that this is resolved peaceably. As many parents have mentioned it often isn’t and at this point it’s up to the parent to give the child the skills to stick up for themselves. Bear in mind that we spend the first four years of kids life telling them “It’s not nice to hit”.

We need to adjust that message from “It’s not nice to hit, but if you have been hit you can hit back”. I don’t think that’s unreasonable.

Not trying to attack someone with a weapon, that's for sure.

What's this got to do with the OP anyway? Does this collection of 5 yos have weapons?🙄

That's a good post & sensible and balanced suggestion.

If you have spoken with the school and the issues aren't resolved, reasonable force should be used.

If she had spoken to the school & it's still an issue - she needs to remove her child or escalate the issue.

Anyway, OP didn't return and her initial posts just spoke of collective children having hit, which sounds nothing like targeted bullying.

We need to adjust that message from “It’s not nice to hit, but if you have been hit you can hit back”. I don’t think that’s unreasonable

Of course it's unreasonable!

How does that help either child regulate their emotions?

In adult life, we can't just do back to others what they do to us (not just hitting) and use the argument, 'well they did it first!'

I tried teaching mine to tell a teacher, tell a teacher. Had several conversations where I told the teacher myself too about this one little shit who kept hurting both of my DTs but dead slyly so he never got caught. After a fair old while, I told them that telling the teacher clearly isn’t working, so as long as he hits you first, you’re free to smack him one back. Funnily enough, we never had a problem with this kid again.

I do still try to encourage both of my children to tell a teacher, and tell the teachers myself as well, but (given it seems they’re largely unsupervised at break times in school) as long as they’re hit first I support them in fighting back as hard as they can, because it’s what would happen in real life.

I hate having to say it to them, but I don’t want either of my kids being bullied by some little shit in school. If they were at a small school or at private school I’d probably give different advice, but then it would probably not arise because it would be dealt with.

Following as I am on the fence about how I feel about it myself. Gaining other perspectives would be wonderful!

Sadly I'd always been 'don't hit back, violence doesn't solve things, tell a teacher'
Then found the schools were great at 'if an adult didn't see, it didn't happen' 'oh well she needs to move away from Timmy' 'we can't confirm it's the same child hitting her, but she needs to be kind'
Nope my child getting hit school weren't prepared to do anything about. So she's now been told if pushing him or hitting back will help her or.stop him then as defence its fine.
Being pushed off her into a puddle has surprisingly stopped the targeting!

I have the problem with 1 of my children. I finally told him to scream every time he was hit. It got attention and those children learned if he screamed it would call attention to them.

This is what is so, so hard as kids get older! If they say they didn’t do it and we didn’t see then we’re at a stalemate and there’s nothing we can do other than try and impress upon them the importance in telling the truth, being able to trust them and thinking about the other person’s feelings if they have hurt them or their feelings as well as trying to admit to mistakes and actions.

I wish we had more power and control but also if we punished everyone without seeing or it being admitted then there would be times it was a lie and someone would be punished who didn’t do anything wrong.

I don’t know what the answer is but 10 years ago more pupils owned up whereas now they are adamant they didn’t do it. I’ve had kids outraged and arguing back at me that they weren’t talking when I’ve seen them myself chatting and then there are consequences because I’ve seen myself but we’re completely powerless if we don’t and they lie and say they did nothing!

One of the reasons we’re losing so many teachers - behaviour is appalling.

We always told ours - first time say very loudly 'no, don't hit me' and tell a teacher

If it happens again, shout same but hit back

Never start it - always finish it
Don't get pushed around