for telling DS being autistic is not a good reason for smelling

[myboysmellsok]

it went roughly like this:

DS 13 who has asd/adhd gets up and puts on a t-shirt he's worn twice before (my fault for not putting it in the washing machine as soon as he took it off I know).
I remind him that the t-shirt has been warn before and ask him why he didn't put a clean one one.
He says he doesn't know where the others are, that he could only see one and he didn't like that one (there's a stack of about 15, at least a few of which he liked last week).

I say that people will think I'm a bad mum if he goes out wearing dirty clothes and smelling.

He says it's because he's autistic and I say that's not a good reason, that not all autistic people have trouble with hygiene, so autism as an excuse is lazy.

He is now really angry at me and is calling me an ignorant bully. DH joining in,.

AIBU?

Does autism acceptance mean that we need to accept people have a right to set their own hygiene standards?

Instead of harrassing my son into having normal hygiene standards should I be congratulating him on ignoring judgemental people (like me) who have a problem with BO and unwashed clothes?

No knowledge of autism but do have a son the same age and he’s a lazy fucker so would definitely put a smelly shirt back on if it was the difference between grabbing that and actually bothering to look in his drawer for a clean one.

He doesn’t have ASD, he’s just a lazy teenager! I also have to remind him to wash. He has cadets every Monday and Thursday but I’m at work until late so I always send him a text reminding him to wash and get into his cadets uniform. Yesterday he said he had but he’d actually skipped the shower hoping I wouldn’t realise… I made him shower at 9:10pm when he got home.

It's the way you've worded it.

No, being autistic doesn't mean that he can go around smelling and expecting this to have no effect/consequences. People will judge him for it regardless. And yes, maybe they will also judge you. But I wouldn't make it about you, because it's not really his problem if people think you are a bad parent. I would make it about him - about being aware of the effect that he has on others, and the value of a first impression.

But "other autistic people can do this so you can, it's just an excuse" is harsh and not very understanding of his condition.

Many, many autistic people struggle with hygiene tasks. What would be helpful is saying "Yes, I acknowledge this is difficult for you because of your autism. How can I help you with it?"

And be prepared that he might not know. So you might have to help him break it down into all the constituent parts - clean clothes, clean armpits, clean hair, other body parts. Getting wet, getting cold while being wet, changing clothes, dealing with sensory input - temperature, sensation of water, smell of soap, sensation of body hair etc.

And while you're working ON how to solve it, try really hard not to be nagging him about it or insisting that he does it. Just keep gently plugging away at each part trying to take one barrier away at a time. Encourage him to identify the barriers and think of solutions (this is a helpful coping skill for adult life). And don't try to insist that he solves every single problem at once, like nagging him to shower, but also to do homework and clean his room and participate in family dinner, and eat, and clean up after himself. Just pick the top 1-2 issues and work on them one thing at a time, letting basically everything else go, same approach, break it down, what are the barriers, what specific part is hard? A team/supportive approach, being on his side, not against him.

My autistic son (16) is the opposite and will go through clean clothes like there is no tomorrow. I have to remind him that we don't need three changes a day or to put something straight in the washing basket if it's only been worn for half an hour and is clean. He has a note (he wrote himself) on his cupboard door and I have recently shown him how to do his own washing which he enjoys (I do the vast majority but he will do some and hang it at the weekend). Have a chat with him about what would help. Reorganisation of his cupboards/notes to remind him/putting his used clothes in a basket downstairs so they are not easily there to grab instead of new ones.

I am autistic and I agree with you.YANBU. He is autistic not incapable of hygiene.

And by this I mean he may find it harder to executive function hygiene tasks and may need support in that area but it's not an excuse not to put a clean t-shirt on instead of a dirty one.

My autistic teenage daughter doesn’t notice her BO and wears the same clothes for days because she likes them and they don’t look dirty. No amount of explaining will change her mind.

I do feel for her as she has quite pungent puberty BO but she has to learn for herself. Once her peers start picking up on it then maybe she’ll take notice. It will be the same for your son, or not but ultimately it’s his choice. He’s old enough to learn how to use a washing machine.

I have an autistic DS. I have told him that his body odour is unpleasant for others and that he must wash twice a day and use deodorant or other people will not want to sit near him and will be disgusted. He understands because he is often upset by smells/noises/textures. He also has 5 school shirts and I count them into the wash at the end of the week. It's manageable because I can be very factual with him and tell him directly if he smells. He knows that the smell is caused by bacteria and that personal hygiene is also important so that we don't become unwell. I have made it clear that washing is non negotiable now that he is a teenager and so far he has complied. You are not being unreasonable!

Loving the ableist replies from autistic people themselves 😲 You should all know better than to compare your own experience of hygiene tasks with those of others! I have several autistic children/adults amongst them I have those that have no problem with hygiene tasks, ones that did and still do but have now managed to find ways of doing these tasks very regularly and one who REALLY struggles. Working together, finding solutions to problems of sensory issues etc and sometimes just knowing when to back off and let them be ime is the only way to reach the end game of an adult who washes an acceptable amount for health and hygiene. We always have to be mindful of what is purely cultural expectation and not actually necessary when helping a person decide what level of self care they wish to aim for.

Also if he isn't bothered about the effect on other people or about people judging him because of it, you might approach it as "This is a social rule. It's a social rule that people should not smell. Not everyone will have the same washing routines, but it's important not to smell."

And you might need to define what that really means. For example, you say that your DH doesn't care what people think of his BO - but you married him, so it must not bother you to an extent. I do think that mums can be a bit more sensitive to our teenage son's body odour than other people are - some kind of hormonal taboo, apparently.

Covering yourself in Lynx is one way to achieve that (of course, questionable whether this actually achieves the aim of "do not smell" ) but if he is not a Lynx fan, then he will need to approach it another way, I'd try to approach him at a neutral time and see if he's willing to look at options. And think outside of the box.

For example, a standing up wash at the bathroom sink might be more palatable than a full shower. A separate hair wash leaning over the sink or bath might be something he is willing to do, either with your help (like at the hairdresser) or on his own if he's flexible enough. A non-scented deodorant or even a powder deodorant. A flannel wash might be better than nothing. You can experiment and see how many days he can skip washing/showering - with clean clothes every day vs wearing the same clothes, see if it makes a difference. It might be that his feet in particular stink. It might be that he gets on better with shaved armpit hair. It might be that a short hairstyle is easier to care for. It might be that a different approach is needed when he does sport vs when he has a day without exercise.

Approach it like this is an issue we can brainstorm/problem solve/experiment together and you're likely to get more traction.

It's hard at this age. I don't approach it as a non-negotiable, it goes out of the window when DS is overloaded, but when he's OK it is an expectation and a routine.

Would having fewer than 15 help? My son absolutely won't pick any T shirt other than the one on the top of the pile. Saying he has plenty to choose from would actually be describing a barrier, whilst showing that I didn't get that it's a barrier.

It doesn't seem like his autism is the problem, just that he sees a t-shirt, it's close by so he puts it on or does he refuse to wash?

My son can't smell his own BO so I just make sure to remind him regularly to wash with a bar of soap, shower gel doesn't kill the bacteria as well, and not to put dirty clothes back on. And to do his washing at least once a week! We got there in the end.

What helped is explaining that it is unpleasant for others to be around a nasty smell and if you are a part of society you have to do your best not to cause harm or distress to others. I assume he would like concessions, he wants one in this instance but a concession or accommodation must never harm others. You might have to wait a few years until his empathy returns after the teenage years though.

I have one child with ASD and one with ADHD.

I have ADHD.

I often tell mine that there are things that they find harder because of their conditions but in no way is that and excuse of it just means that for them they have to work harder at that particular thing.
One of them is really good math and I point out that it's like kids at his school who struggle with mass having to work harder just to get to a basic level he has to do the same with certain aspects of his life we all have bits in life we need to work harder at

I would say hygiene is very emotive so tread carefully.

Also I think a scuzzy phase is a normal part of teenage development. Not ubiquitous but common. I certainly rebelled against teeth brushing at one point and I'm sure it wasn't just me. That doesn't mean we just leave them to it, but try not to see it as a character flaw.

I think all kids go through a grim and grotty teenage phase SEND or not.

That said I've found lists help with my son. He has a routine he likes to go through and having it written down that he needs to brush his teeth and wash every day is very helpful.

Mum of autistic kids here.

Personal hygiene is not up for debate for me. I understand showering can be a sensory nightmare, and demand avoidance can cause meltdowns (been there, done that) but my kids don’t get away with not washing.

As for the clothes thing, unfortunately this is someone you have to assist them with. It’s another thing to add to your mental load, and you wish you didn’t have to micromanage these things at their age but sometimes you have to. My 12yo will dump whatever she’s worn that day on the floor and put it back on the next day without a second thought - because she can’t be arsed to think of another outfit. Alternatively she’ll put something in the wash after wearing it for a couple of hours - because she can’t be arsed to hang it back in the wardrobe.

She also really struggles with the change of seasons because then the “rules” change when it comes to suitable clothes (changing from jumpers and long sleeves to t shirts etc).

Autism acceptance means helping them with the things they find tough without complaint, even when their peers have become independent.

Autism acceptance isn’t about letting them stink because they hate washing - although, sadly, a lot of (toxic) neurodiversity-affirming spaces online DO advocate for letting autistic young people do whatever the fuck they want, however anti-social.

Bravo @Jellycats4life. That's my take on it too.

I never use a shower unless there is absolutely no choice, I cannot bear them from a sensory perspective, but fortunately I get sensory satisfaction from a bath and indeed, I do not feel right if I don't have a bath at the same time every evening. I use a jug rather than a shower-head for rinsing my hair.

My son is younger (also has ASD) and I went through a tooth thing last month. I told him his breath was disgusting and that if he didn’t start brushing his teeth properly I’d do it for him.

I’m happy to help him and make adjustments/buy him things that make it easier but I will not tolerate a dirty smelly child no matter how old.

Totally with you @myboysmellsok

We have an autistic guy at work who smells. He would not have got the job but he was cheap so his BO was overlooked at his interview. No one wants to share a room with him, use the lift or spend too much time with him because of the smell. He won’t be able to negotiate a higher salary and I doubt he will get promoted. Most autistic people, that I know, do not smell. For his sake, keep nagging him.

My son can get like this refusing to shower he is autistic its the sound the shower makes that distresses him

Why can't he have a bath? I have ADHD and I hate showers as the water feels like small needles hitting my skin. I'll happily have a bath though. It's much more soothing for someone with sensory issues.

Showering seems to have become the default and I get that it's quicker and more efficient. But for those who are ND wouldn't you offer the option of a bath? If I couldn't have baths, I might well smell! As forcing myself in the shower every day would be difficult. I mean I can do it if I have to but I wouldn't want to do it day in, day out. It would become quite stressful.

It's difficult OP because while you can somewhat demand he is clean at this age, he will become an adult and he'll just please himself. I personally don't think ND people pick up "good habits" in the same way NT people do. So a routine set now will be irrelevant in future.

I mean really, people do have the right to set their own hygiene standards. It might not be pleasant for others! But there's no law that people can't be dirty/smelly. So in a way he is right. But obviously it will make his life a lot more difficult in terms of work, socialising etc as people won't want to be around him. I think all you can do is drum that aspect into him.

sadly, a lot of (toxic) neurodiversity-affirming spaces online DO advocate for letting autistic young people do whatever the fuck they want, however anti-social

Yeah. That’s not happening here either.

In the broader family we had this from a now great young man - but the teen years where a challenge.

We couched the hygiene issues by saying - yes you are ND and you don't have an issue with BO - however, plenty of people who are NT and ND do - so do you think you making the effort to smell clean and fresh is a reasonable accommodation for others?

That made it click - not sure why as usually he gave no cares for anyone else - at the time!

As forcing myself in the shower every day would be difficult. I mean I can do it if I have to but I wouldn't want to do it day in, day out. It would become quite stressful.

Exactly. The only time I shower is if I'm in a hotel that doesn't have a bath. The whole staying in a hotel (which I only do if I have to for work) is stressful anyway, so showering is absorbed to an extent as part of the overall wrongness. I have an ensuite shower cubicle at home that I use for storing towels in!

Unreasonable for suggesting you should be running around after him putting his clothes in a laundry bin!

I think staying clean and clean clothes is non negotiable. I have an older autistic brother who never liked showers or baths, but used to have a shower every Sunday straight after my mum did. She laid out clean clothes for him each day. When she became to old to look after herself he stopped washing and showering completely. Social services used to 'ask' him to shower, but of course he didn't, and eventually the only time he got vaguely clean was when a carer took him to a Turkish barber for a shave and hair cut, about once a month. When mum died and he went into a home it had been two years since he last had a bath. Within a month the home had persuaded him to shower every other day, and he is quite ok with that now.