To be sick of having bombshells dropped on me at parents’ evenings?!

[Vestisbest]

Two DC. I do pick up 4 out of 5 days.

My eldest, it turns out, has ASD and ADHD. Nothing negative about his behaviour was ever mentioned by school, until he was almost at the end of reception, and then it was in parents’ evening, the 5 minutes you get allocated. That was the first of many, but nothing ever mentioned in between parents’ evenings. I contacted the SENCO myself to get things moving, set up meetings, organise a referral. Thankfully there are now no longer any surprises at DS1’s parents’ evenings because he has a weekly report book home to me, so I can address any issues with him at home.

My DS2 has just started reception. He’s had a wobbly start, lots of tears, which to be fair his teacher mentioned at pick up in the first week. I have been asking at the end of each week since whether he’s been ok, and she said he has, much better.

Yesterday at parents’ evening, his teacher told me that he’s having problems at play times, lashing out if there are too many children around him. He isn’t hitting or pushing but he gets very angry and the playground supervisors have to intervene. This has been happening every week apparently.

So yet another horrible surprise dropped on me when I’ve only got 5 minutes to ask further. I will be setting up a meeting about it with his teacher if it carries on, but is this really how it’s meant to be? I thought there was never meant to be any surprises at parents’ evening. As I’ve mentioned I do pick up nearly every day and so there’s been plenty of chances for the teacher to mention to me, or to ask me to ring school to have a word. I thought it was meant to be a 3 way relationship, it very much doesn’t feel that way.

YANBU I fear this is the way lots of schools are going now though. Teachers and parents are crying out about how the system is failing. But like the NHS, most people are dismayed, but nothing positive is changing.

I'm a primary teacher and I agree that there should be no big surprises at parents' evening. I would arrange a meeting and discuss if there can be regular communication.

Thank you very much to all the teachers who’ve replied.

I think I would have been more concerned if this was reported later in the year or even at the end of the year. Reception is a difficult time for many children to settle and it’s not uncommon for the teachers to give until half term for settling issues to be raised as more ongoing issues. If they were really concerned and it was dangerous then they should have brought it up sooner but in your case it’s not been dangerous. Perhaps they’ve had other more serious issues to bring up with parents over the last few week. The purpose of the September parents evenings is about settling in. When you get to secondary and your first parents evening in y10 is not til after Easter then I’d not be wanting any bomb shells. Our primary school doesn’t allow parent teacher discussions at pick up. It has to be an appointment made properly. Pick up is too manic otherwise and often there are still queues of parents trying to have a word with the teacher whilst the teacher is trying to maybe catch a different one or 2 parents.

We had that with ds - all his teachers knew he had ASD but he had no behavioural problems at school and they wouldn't support an assessment. In fact generally the unanimous verdict was they wished they had a class full of people like him! One teacher even told me he was God's gift to the world which I thought was a bit OTT especially said in a loud voice in a crowded assembly hall on parents evening!!
I have been told my elder two dds were eccentric by the headteacher of their secondary school but wasn't given any examples and my youngest dd is very clearly eccentric but I just say it takes all sorts. Dd3 is 15 and has lots of sensory issues around clothing and food so wouldn't be surprised if she was ND. To be honest we're all probably on the spectrum and it's a bit like in the book Everyone Here Spoke Sign Language (being deaf was normal in Martha's Vineyard) so it appears normal to us.

We are not all on the spectrum. This is the worst thing to say around autistic people or their carers. There are traits which define autistic people which differ from NT people. It’s the same issue we have when you say someone is ‘severely autistic’ and why the term ‘high functioning’ and ‘low functioning’ were dropped. My daughter is autistic and to many appears ‘normal’ and so t some they would say she’s mildly autistic. She’s not. She’s just as autistic as the next autistic person but the spectrum is so huge that they all have slightly different strengths and difficulties. The people that get labelled as a little bit autistic tend t be the autistic people without learning disabilities. Because a lot of people associate learning difficulties with autism when in fact autism can present with or without a learning disability. But their theory of mind difficulties are still there. And just because someone doesn’t meet the criteria for an official diagnosis doesn’t mean they can’t identify as autistic or be diagnosed later. We were refused a diagnosis based on lack of evidence at school and then after received the diagnosis after it was realised some people are just really god at masking in some situations. But there were still traits at school if they actually looked deeper and really knew what those traits could look like.

My daughter gets sensory overload and overwhelmed when there is too much noise and business around her. No other issues but we handle this by making sire she always has a quiet place to retreat to when she feels this way otherwise she will either explode or breakdown. If we are out and about and she feels like this she gives me a high 5 amd we find a quieter place. She was coming home from school exhausted and stressed and it turned out she was finding the playground and lunch hall like this too so her teacher agreed that my daughter would give her a high five of it happened at school and they would let her go to the quiet area or the sensory tent or the school office. This has worked amazingly well. And she is coping much better so may be worth exploring similar options with your childs school.

YANBU we have had the same problem!

I absolutely agree OP, parents’ evening is a place for “this is going well but could do with working on this a bit more”, not behavioural or other issues that are private and should not be discussed in a rushed manner or where others can overhear. I’m sure the teacher is under pressure themselves but surely a concerted effort to get the child on track would benefit all, not just dropping a bombshell at a wholly inappropriate time?

I would just politely ask for there to be clear communication of any future behaviour issues and that you'll do what you can to support the school from home but you'd need to be aware of any issues in order to do that!

Going in all guns blazing (despite the school's error here) will not achieve anything. Things can definitely improve so focus on working on that with the staff concerned.

I'm a secondary teacher but I never knew what was going on at primary school as my two went to After School Club but the club manager would sometimes be updated with any big issues that had happened in the day. I remember being dismayed that messages home would sometimes simply be a postcard in the classroom window!

I think every school in the country could work on effective communication! I also agree with the previous posters who have said teachers just don't have the time allocated in their day to manage this - the system is truly broken in many schools.

The teacher should have mentioned this before as it has been going on for a few weeks.
I'm a former teacher and we were constantly told that parents' evening is not the appropriate time to talk about things like that for the first time. It should be mentioned in a separate conversation as soon as the problem arises.
Parents' evening can be used to update on already known issues and to talk generally about how a child is settling and how they are doing at academically.

I actually mean everyone in our household not everyone in the world! My brother is undiagnosed and is very vulnerable. He is in his late 50s, a social recluse and a recovering alcoholic. I think a diagnosis would help him get support. My maternal late great aunty told me that 11 of her 16 great grandchildren have been assessed as being autistic. On my paternal side it is also rife, my cousin's boy will never live independently. I don't need a lecture on it. I also have a nvq qualification on supporting people with autism. My ds is at university and I have asked him if he'd like to be assessed but at the moment he doesn't but it is obvious to everyone that he is ND. Thankfully his housemates are very supportive and protective of him - and his much older sister lives near the university if he has any issues. He is absolutely brilliant academically.

This happened to us too, I'm so sorry you're going through this. It's completely inexplicable that they think it's OK to treat you like this. I wish with hindsight that we had complained about this and other rubbish that happened at primary school - I think we were far too apologetic and constantly trying to 'make up for' any difficulties they had with DS, who has ASD. Looking back now, it's striking that primary school nearly always approached him as a problem to be sorted out/controlled (the couple of teachers who didn't do this were much more successful with him). His secondary school (also mainstream) has been a much much happier experience, which I didn't expect with a larger school. They've never made us feel he's a 'problem child', although he has had occasional problems with particular issues and they have called us to help deal with these.

@Manthide i had interpreted your first post to mean everyone in your house, not everyone in the world, and yes your post rings true! My DP does have a diagnosis of ADHD but only since his early 40’s, despite his attention span/forgetfulness having been a running joke well…forever probably! And I wouldn’t be surprised if I was also ND when you look at my childhood, my family, and close friendship group. And I do think some consideration needs (and probably will in future) be given to the grey area of ND rather than it being black and white, autistic yes or autistic no. I definitely fall in the grey so there is light and shade to it and I disagree with the blanket yes or no despite having ND in my family.

DS2’s nursery journey so far has been a breath of fresh air as he certainly doesn’t have the same traits of ADHD as my elder DS, who from 3 onwards was your classic white school boy who cannot stay seated nor quiet, is driven like a motor. He’s still like it in Y4!

@Whowhatwherewhenwhy1 that’s a great tip thank you and I hope to be able to do something similar with my DS2. He is a friendly boy, he loves to play, but he doesn’t like boisterous or forcefulness at all and there’s a lot of that from boys in his class (I’ve witnessed it at the million parties we’ve already had!). He can be fairly good at dealing with it when it’s just one child being too rough but I guess at playtime it’s been getting too much for him when there’s too many DC around him playing that way. He hasn’t been lashing out physically but he just gets really angry. I need to teach him to just say he doesn’t want to play and move away, or just stand by one of the play supervisors.

I think dc can have sensory issues from adhd.
My dc are similar. Dc1 wouldnt sit and got into yrouble till y1. Im convinced adhd. But school cant see it as not fidgety. And asd traits too.
Also dc2 never got in trouble... But is over sensitive, issues with socks and hates being hurt or chased in playground. She also wouldnt sit on carpet instead a chair.
I think she is also au/adhd. But the difference is dd2 isnt difficult with the teachers.and cries rather than gets aggressive.
soimo personality affects how people react.

The school is doing a very poor job regarding communicating. At my secondary (where I work) parents are notified by text about negative behaviour points and detentions. We have pastoral staff who ring home about students who are getting a lot of behaviour points. A form tutor report is generated for students who receive 2 or more detentions in a week, parents are phoned & expected to sign the report daily. Subject teachers ring home for students who are regularly a pain. There would be zero surprises on parents evening.

Vestisbest I'm. so sorry. Yes the Teacher shouldn't drop it on you at Parents' Evening. She should have asked you to have a chat earlier and then gone over ideas about how to help him. I don't think playing the 'blame-game' is right or fair here. I am interested that it occurs at playtime and the Supervisors have to intervene. Are they different from the Teachers? When I taught, sadly there was a period when I noticed how the Lunch-time Supervisors had less skills with the children and how the children who were a bit insecure for any reason (shyness, not keen on outdoor play, did not like the general noise and bustle of playtime, had special needs of many different kinds) were not given support by the LT Supervisors but even sometimes goaded into becoming more distressed so that they acted out. I guess the Supervisors have no training but they seemed to blame the children for not 'just playing like the others'.
I do remember many other brilliant people caring for the children at Lunchtime that I met when I was Teaching though. I will never forget them, especially at one school where there were a lot of Special Needs Children and these amazing Ladies used to look after them so kindly and think of such lovely things to do with those children who were not feeling so happy about running around outside.
Anyway, it was just a thought because you mentioned it was at playtime. I wondered what factors could be causing him to feel distressed then. Some schools have a special room with quiet games for Special Needs children to retreat to if playtime gets too much for them.

I think this is unacceptable - your child having behavioural issues like this needs to be passed on to you immediately. He may have needed support from you!

I would write to the head about that myself.

Lamblossom
I just could not believe it when I read
"3 months before his A Level finals the college said he should be tested for Dyslexia. He was and was diagnosed with a chronic version of the learning challenge."
You poor mum! More to the point, the poor boy! How could this have happened?
Mind you, I can tell you that my 'Teacher Training' many years ago was utterly dire. It was before as much was known as now about different learning disabilities etc. but I still curl up when i think how allthose people are Teaching who might not have had any further education. I took it on myself to do lots of other courses. Eventually I did another degree and did well which ended up with my leaving teaching for a different career.

However, how can a child have 14 years in school without at least one Teacher noticing they are dyslexic?

God bless him. I hope and pray he is doing well and is happy.
To all the other mums who have reported bad experiences I am so very sorry too. I can only say that Teaching has changed so much now. Teachers are expected to do so much paperwork and act like productivity machines. They are overworked. OK there are holidays, but in term time the hours are ridiculous. They don't have time for their own children, neither in the evening nor at the weekend. In the Classroom the days of individual teaching, adapting your methods to the child's needs, making the curriculum feel as though it belongs to the children, all of that is nye impossible now.

simiisme
Also at some Secondary schools I know, awkward behaviour in break would not be automatically attributed to being 'bad' behaviour but is looked into to find out why the child reacted like that. The special needs children like the OP's child may find the crowds of other children, the noise and generally how the children play and expect him to react something they cannot understand or maybe are frightened by. An ASD child could well find it overwhelming to have lots of children all running around at playtime especially if they get near him and touch him and the noise at playtime might be awful for him. As they crowd to get indoors it might frighten him.
I know a child who is registered blind and deaf although he has a little sight and hearing. But break time on a large field with balls flying around or his name called out are impossible for him to interpret. His school suggested he started by using the Special Room where there are activities he can engage with and gradually learn the feel of life out on the field if and when he wanted to go out at lunch time.

Primary school teacher here. I’m not sure how your DCs school works, but I always find it difficult to have conversations with parents at drop off/pick up time as there are always other parents wanting to speak to you, plus you need to keep an eye on the children still in your care. I usually tell parents that want to speak to me or if I want to speak to them to come toward the end of pick up time when most of the children/parents have gone. My class can be collected between 3:15-3:30. I suggest coming at about 3:25 as the playground gates get locked. Could you possibly do the same? You could also ask for a meeting with the teacher. You don’t need to wait until parents evening and you will get more than a quick 5 minute chat. We allow 10 minutes during parents evenings (we do it over 2 evenings), which for some parents it is more than enough, but others need longer.

I’m a teacher. It is absolutely my policy that there should be no surprises at Parents’ Evening. Issues should be communicated long before. It’s completely legitimate to be annoyed about this.

Another primary teacher here. IMO YANBU. Things like this should not be left to parents evening and you should not have been blindsided. Where I work, it is made clear that nothing should be a shock for parents on parent meeting night.

However, are a few suggestions on here I find unreasonable. Writing to the head will get you nowhere. You’ll end up being recommended to speak to the class teacher. Head of year maybe, but I would give this teacher the benefit of the doubt first after a polite request to be informed of further incidents.

I would not expect to give a in-depth verbal/written report daily to a parent for one child. There are 30 other kids in the class, all of varying needs and whose parents I keep in contact with, plus all the marking, planning, meetings, reports, assessments and all the other admin jobs to tick boxes that I have to do. I have a couple of parents that I give a thumbs up or down to in relevance to their child’s day when they pick up their child. If it’s a thumbs down, they know to hang about after I’ve said goodbye to the other children so we can have a quick chat about the day.

I’m afraid to say there is an epidemic of poor behaviour everywhere in schools at the moment, compounded by covid, many families struggling in current climate, lack of SEN resourcing and funding, shrinking school budgets and austerity. There is an exodus of teachers/TAs leaving because the job is too stressful now.

We (teachers and senior leadership) often spend all day dealing with the most extreme behaviours day to day, which can range from primary aged children attacking teachers/each other to climbing over walls and destroying classrooms. I work in a mainstream school in a relatively nice area - this isn’t unusual at the moment. That doesn’t leave much time for children who are not coping but aren’t hurting other children sadly - let alone the children who just want to get on and learn. I feel sorry for all children in the broken education system right now because they are getting a raw deal.

Anyway, I hope you are able to find a solution that will work for you so you can be informed about DC’s day. If she’s a good teacher, she’ll want the best for him and will be keen to work with you.

Primary schools do seem to be very random in how they deal with things.

DS has ASD and ADHD and was diagnosed before he started primary so they were always aware, and he had a statement (EHCP now). I had so many calls in the early years, about his behavioural issues and specific incidents etc - I can remember meeting my DSis for lunch and crying because they rang to tell me about DS biting another child, or something. There were certainly no surprises!

But they were rubbish about telling me about his (and his sister's) academic issues! DS was rated 96% secure for literacy and numeracy at the end of year 4, and then dropped to 4% secure at the end of year 5! No discussion or anything in between! You can imagine the (futile) discussions I had with the headteacher following that.......

DD is dyslexic. I badgered her teachers for years and years with no support or acknowledgement. Finally paid for a private diagnosis of severe dyslexia in Year 8 (secondary school tested her and said that was her profile, but they can't fund formal diagnoses). Primary school just ignored all the signs despite my repeated questions year on year!

You are right that you should be told about every incident, every time. At primary, the parents (as you are) are there outside the classroom every day. You need to kick up a huge fuss and demand daily reports or updates if there's anything you should know. As mentioned, our primary was rubbish in terms of academic stuff, but even they managed to talk to me about behavioural issues.

Good luck! All I can say is that in our case things improved massively at secondary school.......

Speaking as a teacher... There should be no real bombshells at Parents' Evenings at any age level. Especially if you're only being given five minutes! It should just be a chance to discuss work, anything that might need supporting at home and a chance for you to ask a question or two.

If there are any serious issues, I'd expect to be phoning home. I've phoned home about work problems, behavioural issues, not having a coat (although if you're them, discussions about uniform and coats can usually be done then). and body odour issues. It's easy to say "Can I have a quick word?" and to pop into a classroom for a quick chat.

Parents' Evening is not the time to start mentioning Dyslexia/MLD/ASD/ADHD! There should be a meeting organised to include a SENDCO.