To want to understand and get something to be done about the school toilet issue.

[Rasell]

Until a couple of days ago I was blissfully unaware of the fact that lots of children are unable to go to the toilet all day at school on a daily basis, because lots of schools countrywide lock their toilets during lesson time and then are either too understaffed to open them or there are just too many children trying to use them, there's not enough time to eat and queue up for the toilet so these children are forced to hold it in all day, every day.
This seems to be because of appalling antisocial behaviour, destroying the facilities, bullying and worse but I'm not clear as to whether that's always the reason why.
I very much sympathise with schools having to deal with this and am horrified by the utter lack of values, respect, care, integrity and common decency that some people are raising their children to have. I don't know how to solve that problem but it definitely can't be blamed on schools or government, in my opinion; if you have children, raise them to be decent human beings. That's your job.
Denying children the right to use the toilet is unacceptable, though.
No-one can expect older children to just swan off at any given moment for a wee when they're busy doing a task in a lesson; if I need the loo while I'm busy at work I wait until I finish it then I go. However, if I've got my period and am leaking, or suddenly get a tummy ache or something, then I go immediately. Why should that be different at school? Why should they sit there in a pool of blood or desperately trying to hold their poo? How can they focus or work to their best ability?
This feels like pensioners having to choose between heating their homes or eating, or children coming to school without having breakfast and not being able to concentrate. We can't allow our children to have to choose whether they eat or go to the toilet, or sit in a classroom unable to follow the teacher because they're worried they're going to wet themselves. Boys weeing in bushes and girls holding it in all day...this is madness!!
The thread I was following was a mix of people's experiences from either side of the argument and rants. I really want to understand what's going on because I think we need to do something about it. I'm no-one and don't even have any children going through this but I'm so shocked by it that I want to get some facts and start a petition, I don't know, do something! Please help with useful information and comments. Thank you!

I expect most of them are on PAYE.

Or they could walk out of their jobs and fuck the economy, then the Government would have to do something. More parents than there are teachers

It used to be 5%. It's now more like 35% - 40%. Dealing with 5% troublesome students is doable. 40% not so much. And yes, a lot of it can be attributed to shitty parenting. And shitty parenting has become so normal that people don't recognise it as such.

It's still the case that telling the parents to step up their parenting is probably only going to hit home with the 60% that already care about their parenting.

Do you think the parents of the kind of kids who are ripping toilets off the walls are going to say, "Yes, you're right, I must do better"?

I don't know what the solution is other than send them all off for a spot of hard labour.

Maybe teachers and other school staff should be praised for not giving up on those 40%, instead of being berated on here (I'm not school staff by the way)

No, my point was they don't actually recognise that they need to do better. They will honestly believe they are good parents because they behave like many other parents and its deemed acceptable in society because no-one will challenge. The whole "non of your business" attitude you get all the time on MN and in RL.

I would say government commercials like the old road/fire safety ones we had in the 80s/90s but judging on the response to government messages throughout covid, I'd hazard a guess they will largely be ignored!

I do think people need to call out shitty parenting more often though. If your friend/sibling/colleague is giving their 9yo unrestricted access online...ask them "how did you set up parental controls?" to start the conversation. Doesn't have to be confrontational.

Surely no one can be under any illusion that they are doing a good job if their kid is ripping toilets off the walls.

You don't work in a school do you...

Yes. Some parents are that delusional.

@fuckityfuckityfuckfuck there was a post the other day on a local community Facebook page from a parent complaining about the conversation on Y6 pupil WhatsApp group, as it was pretty awful. Some parents were blaming the school. No acceptance that they had let their children had unfettered access to social media which they were legally too young to be on, and that they should have been monitoring the conversation on there.

The devices were all personal ones and obviously the school had no control of what was being posted, but in some parents' eyes it was the school's responsibility and nothing to do with them.

Bit like when there is any vandalism in the town at the weekend or in school holidays, it still seems to be the schools' fault.

@MargotBamborough they will probably say they were lead astray by another pupil

Plus some parents can't cope. Some parents are crying out for help. Some parents are mentally unwell, some parents work all hours, some parents are always off their head. Some parents aren’t here anymore so these kids live with relatives or in care.

We used to exclude these kids, kick them out and send then to be someone else problem 🤷‍♀️ and then the data on this became an issue and those kids had no where to go, the PRU’s and behavioural units started closing down it becoming dangerously full! Then the data on schools excluding kids started being monitored and you can fail Ofsted if you exclude too many kids, which seemed fair, we can't give up on these kids, until ‘too many’ became 3!

So now we have to keep kids who tell staff to fuck off, threaten other kids, and often trash toilets! They're often very damaged kids, sometimes they're just feral and weirdly become ok when they get a job! Managing them is hugely exhausting and I wish the govt would give us the tools to do it!

@crumblingschools

Everything is schools fault. I had a parent nearly screaming at me last year for not making their child read...at home.

This reads like a war between parents and teachers when actually it should be all of us together. Parents 100% need to take full responsibility for raising their children well..but how the hell you teach someone who doesn't know how or care how to do it, I don't know. We can't blame teachers for a lack of morals and decency, or the shocking behaviour that's led to all of this. However, teachers you must see that it's not ok for children to not use the toilet all day on a regular basis, however valid the reasons behind it are?
Pubs and nightclubs have daily drug dealing, vomit, vandalism and all the rest but they can't lock the toilets.
There are so many issues here I'm so worried for the future of our children, our schools, our society. It's terrifying!
We all need to do something together, parents and staff and force the government to boost funding. We all need to start writing letters and doing what we can. Someone on here must know what they're doing, how do you go about starting a proper campaign for change? Otherwise where the hell will we be 10 or 20 years from now?

@Rasell teachers on here have been telling parents on here for ages that education is in perilous state, and it has mainly fallen on deaf ears. Many posters have accused these teachers of obviously hating children and they should get out of education. Unfortunately, many teachers are voting with their feet.

Maybe this toilet issue will finally be the catalyst to make parents realise that education is in the shit (excuse the pun!)

But please don’t blame the teachers

Yes. As do pupils with disabilities meaning they need access to the toilet. This happens routinely at my nephews’ school.

I find this crazy!

my daughters school has toilets within the classroom area so they can use them as and when and they don’t need staffing as they’re in the classroom.

Is your daughter at primary or secondary school?
We have 1400 students on roll. We do not have "en suite" toilets.

However, teachers you must see that it's not ok for children to not use the toilet all day on a regular basis, however valid the reasons behind it are?

No, I don't think it's ok for children not to be able to access a toilet all day.

However, I doubt teachers would know about a kid not going to the toilet all day? I've no idea if there are any students I teach who never go because the toilets are minging or whatever. I know the ones who go often!

It's up to parents to bring that up with schools.

This!

I worked in a brand new secondary academy. The toilet facilities had been designed to prevent all the antisocial behaviour that's rife in toilets in most secondary schools. The entrance to these new facilities were about 6metres wide opening off the corridors, with CCTV in the corridor looking in, all unisex cubicles and no urinals, so any antisocial behaviour would be evidenced. The toilet cubicles were floor to ceiling on both sides with sinks back to back in the centre. No mirrors. All these facilities were used by both staff and students at any time, couldn't be locked as there were no doors on the entrance. No one could hide and staff could be in to use the facilities at any time, so with that and the CCTV it stopped all the antisocial behaviour. Staff did not like the idea initially, but it worked very well.

I think schools need to relook at their toilet facility designs as what currently goes on is not healthy for anybody involved.

I’m sorry but this is so horribly naive it’s funny. Who would be cleaning all these lovely en suite toilets, exactly? Schools are so horribly underfunded that half the cleaners have gone, leaving teachers to do their own rooms, labs etc.
Also, this would make disruption infinitely worse! A good chunk of the boys would sit making loud farting noises and shouting, ‘I’m sorry, Miss, but I’ve got a tummy ache, I just can’t help it!’. Some would to embarrass the girls - ‘Miss, I think she’s got to change her tampon’ and suddenly half the class would need the toilet because ‘it’s only there, Miss’. 🤣

As an ex teacher and someone with a child just starting secondary, I'm actually in despair at the state of the school, the rules, and the total lack of consideration.
The place is run like a military unit and the academy is eradicating all personality out of children.

Not allowed to chat, not allowed to put hands up to have discussions. Weekly pencil case checks. Detentions for the most arbitrary reasons

Not like what I remember of school. Not even close and it's no wonder we have such a mental health crisis

Kids will get ill from this.

Do the toilets get trashed in this school?

You mean the accessible toilet?

It's closed.

Vandalism.