To want to understand and get something to be done about the school toilet issue.

[Rasell]

Until a couple of days ago I was blissfully unaware of the fact that lots of children are unable to go to the toilet all day at school on a daily basis, because lots of schools countrywide lock their toilets during lesson time and then are either too understaffed to open them or there are just too many children trying to use them, there's not enough time to eat and queue up for the toilet so these children are forced to hold it in all day, every day.
This seems to be because of appalling antisocial behaviour, destroying the facilities, bullying and worse but I'm not clear as to whether that's always the reason why.
I very much sympathise with schools having to deal with this and am horrified by the utter lack of values, respect, care, integrity and common decency that some people are raising their children to have. I don't know how to solve that problem but it definitely can't be blamed on schools or government, in my opinion; if you have children, raise them to be decent human beings. That's your job.
Denying children the right to use the toilet is unacceptable, though.
No-one can expect older children to just swan off at any given moment for a wee when they're busy doing a task in a lesson; if I need the loo while I'm busy at work I wait until I finish it then I go. However, if I've got my period and am leaking, or suddenly get a tummy ache or something, then I go immediately. Why should that be different at school? Why should they sit there in a pool of blood or desperately trying to hold their poo? How can they focus or work to their best ability?
This feels like pensioners having to choose between heating their homes or eating, or children coming to school without having breakfast and not being able to concentrate. We can't allow our children to have to choose whether they eat or go to the toilet, or sit in a classroom unable to follow the teacher because they're worried they're going to wet themselves. Boys weeing in bushes and girls holding it in all day...this is madness!!
The thread I was following was a mix of people's experiences from either side of the argument and rants. I really want to understand what's going on because I think we need to do something about it. I'm no-one and don't even have any children going through this but I'm so shocked by it that I want to get some facts and start a petition, I don't know, do something! Please help with useful information and comments. Thank you!

What do you suggest?

How about pushing for funding for this as a start? They've got their fingerprints for the cashless system anyway. It could be connected to the parent app and they can find out in live time if their child has been in there for a long time, how often, etc and if they've vandalized because they also need CCTV.
How many agree with this, given the circumstances are what they are?
The article is from last year, I don't know how it's gone in that school.
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/sep/06/sydney-schools-use-of-fingerprint-scanners-in-toilets-an-invasion-of-privacy-expert-says

Looks like they changed their mind

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/parenting/school-life/sydney-high-school-backs-down-on-fingerprint-scanning-for-students-to-use-toilets/news-story/818cdce419c79fef50f6fbe9fe06da49?amp

But many concerns raised seemed to be about storage of data, whereas use of these scanners are common in school canteens here.

However, if a student is happy to destroy washbasins I’m sure they will be just as happy to destroy these scanners

The fact that the headline says ‘invasion of privacy’ should give a hint as to how it would be received to record every student use of the toilet.

Yes but they have fingerprints in most schools now and and we're desperate. Surely it's better than kids being raped or unable to go all day?
At least it would be one specific thing to fight for before moving on to other issues?

At work we have CCTV cameras in the corridors and electronic key cards to get in and out of the building and the loos (I work in a confidential and restricted area of the building). Most schools have student photocards now for lunch purchases and security/ID.

If a student stays too long in the loo, or the loo is damaged during a certain time, you can identify all of the potential culprits from CCTV and key-card data. It only takes a couple of students to get suspended/expelled for the message to kick in. You also have data to show where a student is repeatedly leaving class.

@Sladurche but they cost money, which schools don’t have. Maybe parents who want to help this situation could fundraise for their schools

Maybe that is the solution for the parents that complain about toilets being locked. "Here is the solution, you fund it". I understand the problems schools have. I used to be a teacher and plenty of my old university friends still are. On more than one occasion students were found having it away in the toilets, taking drugs, smoking, beating others up, etc.

They already do fund it. Through their taxes. Their taxes pay for schools and schools need to be fit for human occupation, which includes having toilets available for all users.

@MargotBamborough but schools don't get enough funding. Many schools are in such a dilapidated state that they aren't really fit for human occupation, even disregarding the toilet issue. I assume you blame the teachers for that too. They are not spending their weekends rebuilding the schools

Of course I'm not blaming teachers for that.

But children's basic physiological needs come before all their other needs.

I get that it is challenging, and if the kids really are so out of control that toilets need to be locked during lesson times - which still, for the avoidance of doubt, is a huge problem for anyone with a genuine need, which is going to be most of the student population at some point - you HAVE to have all toilets unlocked during all breaks and lunchtimes, with a member of staff supervising if necessary, and you HAVE to have long enough breaks to ensure that all children get the opportunity to both eat and use the toilet.

The alternative is simply unacceptable.

@MargotBamborough you are also aware that thanks to a DfE fuck up schools are going to get less funding this year too? So there will be significantly less money to do what you want to happen.

If they cannot safely open toilets at the very least during breaks, which are long enough to allow each child to meet their basic physiological needs, then they cannot safely open the school.

It really is as simple as that.

@MargotBamborough then I suggest you speak directly to the DfE/your MP about this. Directing anger at teachers is not productive in the slightest, they dont control budgets or set the rules. They are there to educate and teach and shouldn't have to deal with supervising toilets etc.
I despair of some of the comments on here but they exemplify how we are turning out a generation of entitled children with zero respect for education or teachers. If parents show teachers no respect then the kids won't either.
Kids follow the examples set to them by their parents. I'm not saying that teachers are saints or untouchables but I've always brought my daughter up to show respect and therefore she models that behaviour. We have to look at our own parenting and take responsibility for the actions of our children.

But they are the ones who have set the rules about not opening toilets. Or at least, their senior management have.

If they cannot safely open the school they need to stop opening it unsafely and pretending they can run it safely when they can't.

If things are this bad then it sounds like it will take the system grinding to a halt completely to make the government pay attention.

The government probably don't really care if girls are skipping school when on their periods or if children are dehydrating themselves all day because they know they won't be able to use the toilet. They will care if schools just don't open over this issue.

But no, teachers will continue going to work as usual, locking toilets and moaning that nothing can be done and it's all the fault of children, parents, the government, the electorate, literally everyone else. And complaining that they have no power when actually they do. They just don't have the imagination to use it.

And if you think that teachers saying, "We can't cope with the behaviour of 5% of you which means that 100% of you will now no longer be allowed to use the toilet at school" will make kids and parents respect teachers, well...

The power you have told teachers @MargotBamborough is to all either illegally strike or leave their jobs, neither of which are reasonable suggestions.

I do find it interesting on here that very few posters who are up in arms about these policies are telling parents that they need to step up with their parenting, instead all the burden is being put on teachers

@MargotBamborough no teachers don't make rules about toilets, the SLT do. Can't you understand that many teachers are already leaving because of so many issues like toilets? The government still don't care. If all teachers walked out tomorrow the government would just stick the kids in front of Oak Academy stuff and be gloating that they have saved millions of ££.
Same with NHS and care sectors. They are all being deliberately underfunded and under resourced.

@MargotBamborough do you also realise that schools are having to fund social workers, trauma specialists, youth workers, ed pyschs etc because people can't access these services outside school as the waiting lists are so long or there is no funding for them. Schools don't get extra funding for this, so this will be at the expense of teachers, repairs to toilets, people who can supervise toilets during lessons etc. Teachers are expected to do so much more than teach nowadays. So maybe that is why they don't have time to check what is happening in toilets, maybe that is why so many teachers are leaving the profession and the numbers are so low for people entering the profession. And huge numbers of those entering the profession leave within 5 years.

You may get your wish that some schools will close, but it won't be down to toilets it will be down to having no staff

Telling parents to step up their parenting is largely pointless if, as someone suggested earlier in the thread, the problem is being caused by a tiny minority of students. Because the parents of the 95% might try to "step up their parenting", but the parents of the 5% actually causing the problem won't give a shit.

Schools need to find ways of dealing with troublesome students the way they always used to.

If all the teachers walked out tomorrow the government would be in crisis.

And the teachers wouldn't have jobs! Bearing in mind many teachers are no longer employed by the Government. What do you propose then?

Easy to say that we should close schools for other people’s children, right?

Of course they would still have jobs. The government would have to do something about it very quickly. But no, continue to sit there politely waiting to be given permission to kick up a fuss, that'll work.

Maybe instead of all teachers walking out all parents should stop paying their taxes, that would also make the Government sit up