To expect my 11 year old to be able to use the toilet during the school day?

[bendy75]

Is this the norm? My 11 year old started in at secondary school last month and has had two warnings (or stage 2 - Low level disruptions) for asking to use the toilet.

I told him to try and go at break times but he tells me they are locked, confirmed today by staff when I asked, children who have a medical need can apply for a toilet pass but he does not, so has to try and go from 8.00 am until returning home around 3.00pm without using the toilet.

AIBU to be shocked by this?

They can go before school, before P1, before P2, break time, before P3, before P4, lunch time, before P5 and after P5. That's NINE opportunities to pee.

From the link above:

The NUT own guidance on toilet issues in mainstream schools notes that:
“Having set times for access to the toilet can cause “I’ll go just in case” practices which means the bladder doesn’t get used to holding on until it’s full. Over time, the bladder capacity can reduce, increasing the need to visit the toilet more frequently.
“At the same time, the amount of fluid a child can drink before needing to go to the toilet is reduced. This results in a vicious circle. A child may consciously or unconsciously ration their fluid intake, or avoid drinking altogether, if they fear not being able to go to the toilet when they need to.”

Perhaps it's time to acknowledge that schooling in its current state is not fit for purpose and that is NOT the fault of the students.

This thread seems entirely at odds with the many many threads about children sipping from water bottles all day every day.

When I was in secondary school (8 years ago) toilets were only unlocked at break times, a teacher would write our names on a list, what time we went in and what time we came out. We were told we were only allowed 5 minutes which was awful for people with stomach problems.

The school is being unreasonable in locking toilets.
Check out ERIC.ORG for loads of really good info and advice about school toileting. It’s not only info for parents of children with continence difficulty.

Whilst there may not be a law stating the school cannot lock toilet, I’m pretty sure it breaks human rights laws not to allow someone to use the toilet at any time…,even though as ERIC says, their making kids ask for a key etc might single them out against their peers.

For my own children, I literally told the school “I’ve explained to my child that if you refuse to let them go to the toilet, they can wee on your classroom floor”.
They very quickly agreed to not make an issue of it.

100%.
How any teacher can follow along with ridiculous rules on not letting kiddos go to the loo, really shouldn’t in that job.

If school doesn’t allow children to set their own personal boundaries at a young age, how do they expect them to say no when they need to or understand the needs of others. And they wonder why kids have toileting accidents at school 😩

They can’t be locked during break and dinner, surely?

It’s actually not that uncommon for school toilets to be locked now - teachers can’t manage the discipline issues that occur in toilets. Pretty sad state of affairs

I'm so naive, I still get shocked that we're doing such a terrible job of raising our children. Why are they so disgusting? I'm not surprised the schools lock the toilets and it's not their job to teach the children to be half decent human beings so we can't blame them for not helping our children grow up well! It sounds so unbelievable that they'd be locked (this isn't something that happens in any of the schools where I live, I've never heard of it before) at the only times the children are allowed to use them but why should schools have to pay for all that damage?! They should get CCTV except for in the stalls or pointing down at the urinals and ban the ones who misbehave from using them or charge their families the cost of repairs and make them clean their own shit off the walls as community service. If parents can be fined for taking their kids out of school during term time can't they be charged if their kids do damage over a certain sum? I'm gobsmacked!
I just don't know what I'd do in that situation or what to advise. I do think at least y7s should have access. It's really depressing to read these posts and think about how awful things are...with all the tragedy around the world in this country we're actually raising children who choose to behave like that? It's a disgrace 😞

DS had a terrible bout of diarrhoea last week and was in all sorts of a state desperate to use the toilet; luckily he was in a lesson whereby he had a sensible teacher who told him to use the adults toilets-he’d never have made it to get someone to get the key and open the students toilet. It’s appalling how they are treated. DS says no one asks to go anymore because it is such a big thing to ask it is humiliating.

@MissTrip82 DS reduces his water intake at school to the bare minimum so he doesn’t have to ask because everyone then laughs at you.

It is indeed high time.

It’s a bit of a vicious circle because if schools have free access to toilets then behaviour in them can be awful and pupils will refuse to go in them because of that, so go all day without using them.

More parents need to realise that their children aren’t little darlings.

More parents need to realise schools are in crisis.

Many schools have adopted the open toilet area solution, so doors on cubicles but no door into the toilet block to try and reduce anti social behaviour. Also have staff on toilet duty but realistically that can only happen at break time (when do those staff members get to use the toilet?)

Most parents on here are blaming the schools but don’t provide an alternative solution that is free and doesn’t add workload to existing staff or require additional staff or require parents to step up and parent their child, or provide additional services to help sort out the feral behaviour in some of the students.

Different schools have different polices and thus kids get a different experience.

The primaries my DC went to did do water bottles in class often seeming to encourage constant sipping and toilets as needed but secondary here never allowed them in class and always tried to avoid toilets in lessons but a change in SLT team and post covid steep decline in behavior and now there are more and more restrictions.

This is appalling reading. My youngest child has just left school, and there was none of this toilet-locking nonsense at any of my children's schools. And wtf are school pupils doing, "shooting up" etc anyway? The whole lot of them ought to be expelled, and then the decent ones can stay and have the loos available without all this fanfare.

@lettingtheforumdown it is pretty difficult to permanently exclude a pupil, and where do you think they go if they have been permanently excluded from one school? Schools are also judged by how many exclusions they have had

i imagine they are having a problem with students vaping in the loos - not that i think this excuses locking toilets all day

As most schools seem to use a fingertip payment system then why can't they fit fingerprint locks to at least some toilets?

Have most locked unless it is a break time and have a few that record the fingerprint of the user.

It won't stop vaping and vandalism but you would know who was responsible.

Tbh fingerprinting in schools has come under major criticism regarding it being a disproportionate use of personal data so I don't think it's use should be expanded, the school should just stop being so draconian

@sashh that would cost money

The emphasis shouldn’t be on preventing use of the toilets - it should be on the schools to change behaviour of children misbehaving.

Put a camera outside the toilet so there’s a time stamp.
Get someone/caretaking staff/teachers whatever to do a ‘clean check’ of the toilets (like you see companies do where they tick off a sheet) at regular times - if any damage, then all they have to do is check CCTV for the people coming in or out at that time.

But behaviour management and inspiring the kids to want to behave is going to be a more effective long term solution rather than locking toilets.

@Verbena17 but who is going to pay for the extra staff required to do that considering there is a massive teacher recruitment issue and there aren't enough teachers to cover all lessons, let alone police toilets?
While all the suggestions are great, they cost money and that's something that schools just don't have.

I’m a teacher. The toilets at my school, and others I’ve worked at, have always been locked. This is due to many issues that happen within the toilets at all times; break and class times, and teachers being unable to go in to the toilets. I do not agree with this.
So, no, OP’s son is not necessarily lying. You sound nasty.

@Verbena17 what happens if little Johnny is innocently having a pee in one of the cubicles when big Ron comes in and rips off one of the other cubicle doors. CCTV shows Johnny and Ron going into loo block at the time the damage is done