To expect my 11 year old to be able to use the toilet during the school day?

[bendy75]

Is this the norm? My 11 year old started in at secondary school last month and has had two warnings (or stage 2 - Low level disruptions) for asking to use the toilet.

I told him to try and go at break times but he tells me they are locked, confirmed today by staff when I asked, children who have a medical need can apply for a toilet pass but he does not, so has to try and go from 8.00 am until returning home around 3.00pm without using the toilet.

AIBU to be shocked by this?

You can't blame other people's attitudes for leaving you either have it in you to inspire or you don't.

I missed this. You are part of the problem. Stop it.

Is that it your only input no wonder the country is fucked.

The rest of the world is laughing at us while we squabble over education and toilets.

No, that's not my only input.

HTH.

They need to bring back sin bins.

No of course not, this was in response to someone saying you can't only stop disruptive pupils from using the toilet. But in my view if a pupil vandalises the toilets then they should be the only ones who are punished for it, not the rest of the pupils.

Its statements like this

You can't blame other people's attitudes for leaving you either have it in you to inspire or you don't

That make you goady. but then people like you don't like being called out on it.

Another useless suggestion.

Having worked in multiple schools, this is quite likely to be true.

Toilets are rife for bullying, vaping and generally causing havoc. There aren’t enough staff to manage this well in most schools. So the only option is to limit their use.

Its inhumane and teachers hate the whole set up too.

Until parents teach their kids how to behave and be respectful and until schools are staffed and funded appropriately, I'm not sure how else it can be managed!

When was the requirement that pupils can only be expelled/permanently excluded if there was alternative provision in place brought in? Interestingly it doesn’t appear to apply to private schools which may be one reasons why this doesn’t happen there - troublemakers can actually be effectively dealt with?

Would state schools become safer places, for both pupils and staff if it became vastly easier to instantly expel pupils who were found to be vandalising school property and assaulting other pupils and staff?

Perhaps the alternative provision requirement on the LA could be reduced to simply providing access to online learning, which would be vastly cheaper and more scalable than PRUs.

@BCCoach You sound completely ignorant to why kids misbehave. And actually, kids are being permanently excluded for the most stupid offences. PRUs are at their wits end because of this. There's no flexibility and a lot of the rules end up pushing kids to the edge instead of de-escalating the situation.

Wow this is news to me that toilets are locked . For what reason is this please
am a parent and yes I know my kids say they are not allowed to go to toilets whilst a teacher is teaching . Strange to me but I just told them to get on with it whatever the rules are .

No pupils are being permanently excluded in my county at the moment, including children who have seriously assaulted other pupils because there are simply no PRU places available. My own child (yr8) has to see the yr10 who put him in hospital every day because the school cannot exclude them because there is no alternative provision in place. The school have privately said that their only hope is a custodial sentence but we are still a long way off it going to court.

So - can you actually answer my question and tell me when the alternative provision requirement came in place?

I’m really not concerned as to WHY children are being excluded, I’m concerned about the fact that it is so hard to exclude troublemakers, to the detriment of the well-behaved majority. Would state schools benefit if it was easy for them to permanently exclude as it is for private schools?

Apologies forgot to tag you in my reply @Foxesandsquirrels

It is unfortunately, exactly same situation at my son's secondary school too. Outwood Academies it is the normal and outrageous, many have complained but they won't change the rule!!

@BCCoach I never said I knew when that requirement came into play, I didn't even know if was a requirement. I was surprised by your comment because my DDs school she just recently left, has a 0 tolerance behaviour policy and a higher than average suspension and exclusion rate. So much so it's noted on their Ofsted. I have no idea where in the UK you are. As a min that child would be on a managed move to another school or recieving online AP. That's a thing in our borough. It sounds like your LA is crap. Your child should not be subjected to that.

Exactly @Amermaidandaman People who are explaining why schools do this aren't saying isn't it a wonderful idea, they are simply explaining the crisis schools are in. In an ideal world measures like this would not be necessary, but when you are trying to balance the books, reduce bad behaviour in toilet blocks including serious assault and vandalism and cope with minimum staff there is never a good answer

Yawn

Access to facilities is a human right. Name and shame.

It's this Conservative government.

Well it is getting late and you probably have school tomorrow, If your not excluded.

My sons school has the same policy when it comes to using the toilet in lessons. I was fuming when I found out. It's the most ridiculous thing I've heard. He ended up with a detention for wanting to use the toilet???

People who are explaining why schools do this aren't saying isn't it a wonderful idea, they are simply explaining the crisis schools are in.

The teachers explaining this do witness and do take part in the inhumane practices, albeit involuntarily. They are part of the problem: when they should protest loudly, they accept what happens and start justifying it.

They should all quit and then the kids would have no toilets and no teachers. 👍

There is no point oi blaming teachers, I and many others have complained, but nothing gets done.
Parents have complained but nothing gets done.
The reason why nothing gets done is because all schools can do is treat the symptoms and not the disease (to those that are offended its a phrase, get over it).
Until schools are allowed to exclude for this it will keep happening, But as schools cannot exclude for pupils physically assaulting teachers and pupils its not going to happen.