To as you to teach your child how to act around dogs?

[ToBeOrNotToBee]

I'm gobsmacked, truly, still around an hour or so after this event.
Dog and I have had a busy day travelling and exploring the countryside.
On our way home, coming off train 3 of 3 on the return leg, having been out for 12 hours, I walk to the lift (which is around a corner and obscured by a stairwell) at the end of the platform with dog to heel besides me.
We're waiting with a few others when this 5-6 year old child appears around the corner, running towards us, hands outstretched, literally beelining for the dog. I see what's about to happen and immediately put the dog behind my legs and put my hand out telling the child a stern 'No'.
The child then tries to go behind to reach my dog, who is cowering between my legs. I have no choice but to grab hold of the child's coat and physically stop them, letting go when the child stops trying to reach my dog.
After a moment or two, the Dad appears and then screams at me for touching his child. As he's midscream, the lift appears and I go into it with a few others and doors close as everyone else looks awkwardly at their feet.
The doors close, we go on our merry wall.
But I couldn't stop this feeling that the child will one day do that to the wrong dog and end up a dog bite statistic.
Say for example, I wasn't as switched on, and my dog as placid as he is, or in pain that day, and the child did poke him painfully causing him to snap and bite. Child would have been hurt, my dog potentially put down, and I get a conviction for having a Dangerous Dog Out of Control.
It's something I've noticed over recent years, people treating strange dogs as public property and not animals with sharp teeth and their own minds.
So please, teach your children not to run whilst on busy train platforms (or any train platform), to not approach unknown dogs, and if someone says no, to respect it.

Is that too much to ask???

Obviously most parents do teach their kids not to approach dogs just like most dog owner teach their dogs not to approach people. You are going to come across the occasional parents who think it is fine for them to approach your dog and dog owners who think it's fine for their dog to approach strangers. However I imagine in most cases it's dogs and children who don't always remember what they have been taught. Hopefully your dog isn't too traumatised.

My youngest is terrified if dogs and literally climbs up my to get away from them.

There has been an explosion of dog owning in the last few years and more badly behaved dogs bounding up to kids in my opinion. The owners just normally shout ' it's OK they're friendly!' From afar, rather than calling the dog back. I can see why kids then assume other dogs are friendly too.

The local playground in our park is open plan (no fence) meaning dogs coming in,fouling, snatching picnics. Playgrounds were always fenced off and no dogs allowed in my day.

Totally with you on this. I have a small, cute very friendly dog who loves being fussed. On several occasions I’ve had to pull him away from small children grabbing his face or trying to touch his eyes! Why should he be poked in the eye for entertainment while the simpering parents look on! On the positive side most kids (or their parents) do ask first and have clearly been taught how to be responsible around dogs.

I hope your dog wasn’t slobbering all over the train.

Mumsnet has become the home of children hating dog obsessives.

Dogs are better, cleaner, nicer, quieter than children.
My dog is so clean, sterile in fact and doesn’t eat poo.
Bully XLs are gentle and docile, its the owners.
Its only excited/saying hello.
Dog shit everywhere, piss on beaches, bags hanging from tress is great.

Rinse and repeat.

Though in this scenario the child
should not be running over.

This is an interesting post. Why is it OK for a child to 'be excited and only saying hello', but not a dog who also could be excited and only saying hello?

Both are immature, and learning. Some are better behaved than others. I concede the point that not many children have sharp teeth, or eat shit.

I like well behaved dogs, and I like well behaved children. I dislike badly behaved dog, and badly behaved children. Badly behaved adults too for that matter.

Bags of shit hanging from trees is a disgrace, so I'm with you totally on that front.

I’m a notorious dog hater, and of course I taught my children not to interact with random dogs.

Dogs are not robots!

Do you not get grumpy if you are ill or in pain?
Would you not react to a stranger jumping on your back in the street?

OP took steps to protect her dog in a way that did not harm a child who was refusing to listen - having been told "no" repeatedly.

Seems the dog was trained better than the child.

You are brave saying that in UK!! If you do not like dogs you are by definition inhuman and heartless!

Dogs are not robots!
Do you not get grumpy if you are ill or in pain?

And there is the crux of the problem. Owners who say their dog is "just being friendly" or "wouldn't hurt a fly" are talking rubbish. As you so rightly say they could be on a grumpy day, ill or in pain.

Dogs are instinctively programmed to kill - it is how they would survive in the wild if we had not taken over their nature and channelled it to our wishes. If they have a bad day they revert to type. It is only to be expected.

There is an absolute duty on dog owners to ensure their animal neither harms nor inconveniences no-one. That does not include manhandling someone's child.

Sorry about the double negative!!

YNBU my little one is 18m old this month, and I’m teaching her that if she sees a dog she can stop and look at a distance. But she under no circumstances can touch a dog who is not hers.
I get a little frustrated when the owner then walks over and is like oh my dogs friendly she can touch and I’m like.. thank you, but I’m trying to teach her NOT to touch random dogs, would rather no contact at this age and then when she’s old enough to ask.

If she is good and stops and points out the dog, and if they walk past I’ll let her stop and wave at the dog. But I honestly think better to be safe then sorry.

• And there is the crux of the problem. Owners who say their dog is "just being friendly" or "wouldn't hurt a fly" are talking rubbish. As you so rightly say they could be on a grumpy day, ill or in pain.

Dogs are instinctively programmed to kill - it is how they would survive in the wild if we had not taken over their nature and channelled it to our wishes. If they have a bad day they revert to type. It is only to be expected.

There is an absolute duty on dog owners to ensure their animal neither harms nor inconveniences no-one. That does not include manhandling someone's child.*

Bull. I know this is hard to believe for the rabid dog haters, but my dog genuinely "wouldn't hurt a fly" if left alone because she has no interest in strangers. She's a working dog - she picks up game and leaves it unmarked (like most of her breed/training level she can carry raw eggs without breaking them).

But the onus is on others to leave HER alone.

If both parties ignore each other all is rosy in our garden.

However too many children are never told no. And on the rare occasions they are told no they ignore.

The OP protected her dog in the same way I would expect the parent to protect their child if the interaction was reversed.

You clearly have all dogs down as rabid and uncontrollable killing machines.

but my dog genuinely "wouldn't hurt a fly" - this should read "I BELIEVE my dog wouldn't hurt a fly." There is a difference. There is no way you can know this.

I am not a dog hater - I would not choose to have one and do not like it when they make a nuisance of themselves. There is a difference.

Labelling those who are not into dogs as dog haters does not advance understanding at all; nor does it help to deal with the acute problem of dangerous dogs, as you then feel you can dismiss the concerns of those whom you label in this way.

Romantic, the difference is, the situation cannot be reversed, a small child can't savage a dog

This is absolute rubbish - dogs are not "programmed to kill". They aren't wolves, they don't know how to hunt - they're completely domesticated, so - when left to their own devices and out in the wild - they become scavengers, not hunters. They generally attack other animals only for defence, not food. This is all why, in countries where stray dogs are common, they tend to gravitate towards human settlements rather than roaming the countryside - there's more waste food around.

As to the original topic...I do wonder how much could be improved in the world (both in terms of empathy and safety) if children were taught in school how to read canine communication - the stress signals and warning signs that all dogs use, the escalation ladder, and play signals. It doesn't even have to be with live dogs, just video demonstrations would be enough (I know there's a non-trivial proportion of parents who wouldn't like their kids to be near dogs, no matter how controlled the context, and that's fine).

It's simple stuff, and even if it stops a few kids from pushing a dog past its limits, that's a good result.

How about telling dog owners to control their dogs? The amount of times I've had dogs barking and growling at me and the owners think it's OK as long as I'm not actually bitten...

HHhmmm...I feel that it's more that if you think cats should not be allowed to roam wherever they want, come into anyone's house that has an open window and you just don't gasp like cats, you are damned in the UK. I mean, no screens on the windows, so cats can just come in and people have to tolerate that? YUCK!

Kid and parent will learn one day when they meet the wrong dog. Cant say I would have much pity for them.

The solution to that, of course, is to have dogs in the house ;)

this should read "I BELIEVE my dog wouldn't hurt a fly." There is a difference. There is no way you can know this.

We live on a farm in the middle of nowhere and she doesn't voluntarily approach strangers.

If they approach her she moves away.

My children (who love dogs) are taught consistently that they mustn't touch or approach a dog without permission.

Though I did have one owner once tell me I was making my child afraid of dogs, which I found odd. He did have massive dogs though so maybe he took me doing what I always do personally for that reason.

What I've found is that kids are overall quite good at asking if they can pet my dog. The problem is they think asking is their clue yo make it ok to do so and don't listen to me telling them no.

My dog is scared of kids. She would never bite them but a child coming to her especially traight on will petrify her and I become defensive of her.

I usually pick her up at this point and turn my back as the kid will still try to pet her in my arms. Parents usually don't say anything. It's once they realise they won't get to pet her and I've explained she doesn't like it that they move on, but by then I have a shaking dog who doesn't want to go back to enjoying the walk.

So commendable to teach kids to ask but make sure they also listen to the response and respect that no means no.

The word ‘parent’ has always been both a verb and a noun

My liking of dogs has turned to indifference and gradually to dislike over the years, simply because there are so many shit owners who can't control their muts. However, ywnbu in this situation OP. My DD would not be running around a train platform anyway, but if she had slipped away somehow (I'm struggling to think how this might happen) then I would have been very grateful for you or any owner taking a similar approach. Better that then her getting bitten. The dad was a fuckwit.

@Dentilly89 "Kid and parent will learn one day when they meet the wrong dog. Cant say I would have much pity for them."

No pity for a 5 year old bitten by a dog? Wow!