To as you to teach your child how to act around dogs?

[ToBeOrNotToBee]

I'm gobsmacked, truly, still around an hour or so after this event.
Dog and I have had a busy day travelling and exploring the countryside.
On our way home, coming off train 3 of 3 on the return leg, having been out for 12 hours, I walk to the lift (which is around a corner and obscured by a stairwell) at the end of the platform with dog to heel besides me.
We're waiting with a few others when this 5-6 year old child appears around the corner, running towards us, hands outstretched, literally beelining for the dog. I see what's about to happen and immediately put the dog behind my legs and put my hand out telling the child a stern 'No'.
The child then tries to go behind to reach my dog, who is cowering between my legs. I have no choice but to grab hold of the child's coat and physically stop them, letting go when the child stops trying to reach my dog.
After a moment or two, the Dad appears and then screams at me for touching his child. As he's midscream, the lift appears and I go into it with a few others and doors close as everyone else looks awkwardly at their feet.
The doors close, we go on our merry wall.
But I couldn't stop this feeling that the child will one day do that to the wrong dog and end up a dog bite statistic.
Say for example, I wasn't as switched on, and my dog as placid as he is, or in pain that day, and the child did poke him painfully causing him to snap and bite. Child would have been hurt, my dog potentially put down, and I get a conviction for having a Dangerous Dog Out of Control.
It's something I've noticed over recent years, people treating strange dogs as public property and not animals with sharp teeth and their own minds.
So please, teach your children not to run whilst on busy train platforms (or any train platform), to not approach unknown dogs, and if someone says no, to respect it.

Is that too much to ask???

You have unrealistic expectations about children, it takes time to learn skills, years. The human brain takes 25 years to fully develop. Its probably less of an ask for dog owners to train their animals and a quick look at the news will show you that isn't possible either.

You are as responsible for your child's actions as I am for my dog's actions.

If they're not old enough to keep themselves safe / not wander off, use toddler reins.

I'd sooner be prosecuted for common assault and keep my dog, than be prosecuted for my dog biting someone and risk losing my dog.

You seem to think that a child hurting a dog is without long term consequences. Many years ago, in the family, a child walked up to one of our dogs and gave her an entirely unprovoked kick, which must have hurt a great deal. From that day onwards she absolutely hated children and couldn't be around them - that one uncontrolled child made everyone far less safe for years to come.

The answer is that the dog owner should take the dog away.

I've had an incident before, in the park, where the dog walked away from the child and the child kept chasing my dog.

I told the child to stop chasing and he continued. The parents watched, and did nothing. I had to stand in front of the child to physically stop him chasing the dog, and then give him a ticking off. The parents still did nothing.

When the owner and dog follow your suggestion, and the child chases, what exactly do you think the dog owner should do?

I don't appreciate being forced to parent other people's children.

This argument about road safety in the context of harm from dogs is so pointless.

Countries have roads with vehicles on them to transport people and things. Cars, vans, lorries and buses are practical means of getting people and goods to places. So are trains.

Because vehicles and railway lines are dangerous we have rules about driving, testing, maintenance, making cars safe. And we fence off railways.

But we can’t eliminate the dangers altogether any more than we can eliminate the danger from the electricity supply in the home. Teaching children road safety, not to play on railway lines or go near rail power cables, or stick things in plug sockets (or play near water or on building sites, or play with dangerous but practical items like knives and tools) is part of minimising the risks and keeping children from harm, while still having these useful, necessary things.

Pet dogs have no practical use. They’re indulgences. We shouldn’t have to worry about dangers from dogs. A wise parent will tell children to shun dogs. But no parent should have to: pet dogs present a risk that is completely unnecessary and without any justification.

Muzzling dogs is a simple and universal way of greatly reducing dog bites, injuries and deaths.

What crap do you would kill sorry euthenaise every dog on the planet as they are of no practical use to man and I guess any other indulgent animal once a guide dog retired put it down after all it's just a useless pet.
Children mistreat animals that shouldn't be allowed all animals need to be treated respectfully, children who cannot do that don't make good compassionate adults. Every parent should teach their child how to be considerate and kind to any living thing they meet not rush up and grab it scream in its face or pull it about your saying no the other animals can't bite back so that's fine allow the kids to scare the shit out of them and destroy anything that could retaliate or put it in a straight jacket (mussel) so the kid can carry on safely scaring the thing while the parent doesn't even bother.

We’re talking about muzzling dogs in public in the UK. We’re not talking about a worldwide dog cull. 🙄

As for straitjackets, what a load of bollocks. Your dog wouldn’t be restrained like being bound. It would be muzzled so it couldn’t use its teeth on anyone. Otherwise it would be physically free (apart from the lead you should have it on).

But the question was teaching children to behave around children not dogs biting children your saying mussel the dog and kids can freely run up to dogs screaming grabbing pulling and mistreating them and that's fine as dog can't bite.....no it's not fine to terrify a dog that's cruel.

Personally I think a lot of dog ownership is cruelty, even if the owners don’t recognise it. But whatever.

Yes, the question was generally about teaching children how to behave around dogs. And the OP said “But I couldn't stop this feeling that the child will one day do that to the wrong dog and end up a dog bite statistic.”

So I’m saying, muzzle dogs and we can be confident that that won’t happen. It’s not any parent’s responsibility to stop a dog biting a child (or anyone else) - it’s the owner’s sole, untransferable responsibility in all circumstances.

Unfortunately I feel I have to teach my kids to stay away (like back off 2-3 meters, walk on the road if we have to) from any dog we don't know. I'm very aware that I'm probably installing fear of dogs in them, but there's just so many irresponsible dog owners and untrained dogs around, I'm not comfortable with them walking any closer.

Manhandling a random small child in a train station probably wasn't your finest hour. Did you consider asking the child to stay back or telling them he wasn't friendly? You seem to have gone straight in with yelling one word (my kids wouldn't even realise you were taking to them) then grabbing the kid.

If we want to reduce risk, let’s ban everyone owning their own cars and only use public transport, cycle to work etc. it’s possible - my parents did it. Cars are a luxury, and cars aren’t safe, people are killed and maimed everyday.

if kids can be taught about road safety, knife safety etc, they can be dog safety.

🤦‍♀️

I think I might start walking up to @WhileMyDishwasherGentlyWeeps kids and start touching them without permission.

Let's see how that one goes.

Consent is important.

Teaching your children - especially sons - about seeking consent before touching, and self restraint, in the context of dogs, lays the groundwork for learning about sexual consent when they're older.

WTF?

Dude, if you think sex is like patting dogs you're doing it wrong.

Back to the OP

The Child DIDN’T hurt the dog.

We have NO insight into the context of the child's behaviour.

The owner didn't fear the dog would hurt the child.

The OP layer hands on the child when there was no apparent imminent risk, seemingly out of frustration rather than safety. Which is assault.

Therefore no the OP regarding it being reasonable to teach children how to behaviour around dogs is reasonable.

But we have no idea if this was or wasn't the case for this small child with an under developed brain and potentially just as hard a day as the dog.

Laying hands on the child in this situation was unreasonable and borderline assault.

The child did not manage to get to the dog because OP stopped them. Plus, the child was running wild on a train platform.

The equivalent would be to muzzle all dogs in public.

No it isn't. The equivalent would be to have tests for the owner to ensure they know how to own and train a dog, and annual behavioral checks for the dog, along with penalties for failure. I'd be all up for that over a muzzle.

Yes it is. A car must by law have, for example, working headlights, rear lights, brake lights and indicators. These are mandatory things to allow other road users and pedestrians to be safer.

A muzzle should be a mandatory safety measure for dogs in public.

I suppose a true equivalence would be the licensing and testing AND muzzles. But if muzzles were mandatory we wouldn’t need the rest: a muzzled dog would be just a nuisance rather than a hazard.

And if licensing and testing were mandatory, we wouldn't need muzzles. I'd add controls over breeding and the immediate removal of any ability to buy from Facebook/ gumtree etc. That would solve a lot of the irresponsible breeding which causes most of this shit anyway.

I suppose I should also point out that none of the MOT checks actually prevent the car potentially being lethal, so it would be more appropriate to make sure my dog's hearing, eyesight and teeth are in perfect order.