To as you to teach your child how to act around dogs?

[ToBeOrNotToBee]

I'm gobsmacked, truly, still around an hour or so after this event.
Dog and I have had a busy day travelling and exploring the countryside.
On our way home, coming off train 3 of 3 on the return leg, having been out for 12 hours, I walk to the lift (which is around a corner and obscured by a stairwell) at the end of the platform with dog to heel besides me.
We're waiting with a few others when this 5-6 year old child appears around the corner, running towards us, hands outstretched, literally beelining for the dog. I see what's about to happen and immediately put the dog behind my legs and put my hand out telling the child a stern 'No'.
The child then tries to go behind to reach my dog, who is cowering between my legs. I have no choice but to grab hold of the child's coat and physically stop them, letting go when the child stops trying to reach my dog.
After a moment or two, the Dad appears and then screams at me for touching his child. As he's midscream, the lift appears and I go into it with a few others and doors close as everyone else looks awkwardly at their feet.
The doors close, we go on our merry wall.
But I couldn't stop this feeling that the child will one day do that to the wrong dog and end up a dog bite statistic.
Say for example, I wasn't as switched on, and my dog as placid as he is, or in pain that day, and the child did poke him painfully causing him to snap and bite. Child would have been hurt, my dog potentially put down, and I get a conviction for having a Dangerous Dog Out of Control.
It's something I've noticed over recent years, people treating strange dogs as public property and not animals with sharp teeth and their own minds.
So please, teach your children not to run whilst on busy train platforms (or any train platform), to not approach unknown dogs, and if someone says no, to respect it.

Is that too much to ask???

From the moment our dc began showing an interest in dogs, we began teaching them they must be calm and ask the dog's owner before stroking them. Our youngest was bitten by a small dog, which narrowly missed her eye. I won't go into the circumstances here, but we've never been in any doubt about the importance of teaching our children appropriate behaviour around dogs. Dd is still a bit nervous around dogs, despite both my sisters being dog owners. There have been times when I've had to get cross with dog owners for allowing their dogs to jump up at her as we pass them on a walk. We're trying to teach her not to be scared, but she's still a bit freaked out by any fast and unexpected movements.

There would be absolutely no reason to teach children how to approach dogs (or not) if their owners kept them under control.

There would be no need to teach children how to cross the road if drivers looked properly 🙄

The world doesn't work as you would like it to, and nor does it revolve around letting your DC do whatever they like to animals with zero consequences.

Sorry to be the one to break it to you.

That’s point’s been made and answered. It is sensible to supervise children to keep them from harm. But that doesn’t mean that restrictions, mandatory safety features, tests, licensing and so on shouldn’t be applied to limit the hazard. Car drivers are tested, insured, have MOTs, must obey laws on speeding and all manner of road rules.

The equivalent would be to muzzle all dogs in public.

What could be the objection anyway? Pets - I leave out bona fide service dogs, working dogs and livestock - are just that, pets. Unlike a car they have no practical use or utility.

Said every pet owner before they snapped at someone. I don’t think your spaniel should wear a muzzle on a walk but think it really should be mandatory on public transport if we really do have to have dogs on it.

Hypothetical situation :

Weather is nice so decide to take pooch for a walk along the coast. After a nice walk (on-lead) and then frolic in the water (off lead, dog friendly beach, no one else around), decide to have a nice latte and cherry scone in cafe. Sit outside, dog (on lead) has a quiet snooze at my feet.

Why then, is it acceptable for little Tarquin to come up to sleeping dog, stroke him, hug his neck, poke him to wake him etc and I’m the one to blame when dog becomes agitated and starts to growl ( a warning ‘stay away’ growl)? Dog is perfectly under control, no muzzle needed. Child isn’t.

Obviously I don’t expect dog owners to let their dogs run riot, jump up at every passer by etc. Dog owners do have to be responsible. But parents need to act responsibly as well.

What’s the objection to your dog being muzzled in public?

If it’s inconvenience to you, tough. Don’t have a dog. Have a cat or a guinea pig as a ‘member of the family’.

Erm...if my dog was muzzled and your child came up and hurt her, I would then hurt your child. I'll exercise my right to defend my property, just as I have had to stop certain little darlings out of control on scooters and bikes from careering towards my toddler about to knock her over.

You absolutely do need to teach your kids how to behave arounds dogs. Because kids need taught how yo behave full stop.

No, you wouldn’t hurt a child. That’s just silly.

Do you really want to find that out the hard way?

Fuck Around, Find Out.

Nice.

You do understand that small children aren’t responsible for what they do, but you are?

But what’s the actual problem?

How would it affect you adversely?

Why are you so uptight and belligerent about a simple, across the board safety measure, aimed especially at safeguarding children?

I see that @WhileMyDishwasherGentlyWeeps hasn't answered my earlier question - if a child is hurting a dog, and the dog isn’t allowed to warn the child (by growling) and the owner isn’t allowed to intervene either by physically removing the child or telling them off, how should the child be stopped?

Or is she happy for the child to carry on hurting the dog?

My apologies if I didn’t answer your question.

The answer is that the dog owner should take the dog away.

You don’t think there is any responsibility on the parent to stop the child hurting an animal, @WhileMyDishwasherGentlyWeeps?

Both the dog owner AND the parent have responsibility here - the dog owner must keep their dog under control, and if possible, remove them from difficult situations, as you suggest - but it is a parent’s job to ensure their child knows how to behave around animals - frankly, if dogs are so dangerous that they must be muzzled when out in public, then surely no sensible or caring parent would ever let their child approach such a dangerous creature?

Part of parenting is teaching your child about the hazards and dangers in the world, and how to behave in order to stay safe. Behaviour around dogs is no exception to this.

As a parent, I couldn’t control how dog owners behaved, or many of the other potential hazards in the world - the only thing I could do, to keep my children safe, was to ensure I taught them how to avoid or mitigate the dangers in the world.

I don’t disagree with the broad principles you state.

I didn’t ever let my children approach a dog because I had no idea what any dog was like (my kids are all much older now and live their own lives). I didn’t much like my kids going to houses with dogs in them either, but I just had to put my trust in the parents…

But even if a child of mine had run off and clouted a dog I would still hold the dog’s owner responsible for any response the dog made. I see this as a strict liability situation: if you keep a dog you are responsible for it always, even if it’s provoked. Hence, for that reason and many others, mandatory muzzles.

I’m going to repeat what I said upthread that I seriously worry for the next generation if parents are going to fail to parent their child. It seems that children are not being taught boundaries, discipline or consequences.

But if any child harasses my dog, I will tell that child to leave my dog alone, and if they continue to annoy him, I will physically remove them before leaving the situation, if the parent doesn’t step up.

I’m all in favour of good parenting.

But I’m also in favour of muzzles on dogs.

They’re not incompatible.

*I’m all in favour of good parenting.

But I’m also in favour of muzzles on dogs.

They’re not incompatible.*

Yep, fully agree with you.

Erm...if my dog was muzzled and your child came up and hurt her, I would then hurt your child.

Wtf have I just read?

Erm...if my dog was muzzled and your child came up and hurt her, I would then hurt your child. ....... really? No wonder dog owners get such a bad name.

So if I hit a child with my car are people going to say there's no need to teach road safety as it's the drivers fault? Way more kids are hurt by cars yet parents can be so lax with their kids places like supermarket car parks are ridiculous.
We meet ferrel children wherever we go what about the ones at soft play attacking other children?
Parents need to step up in general but it's easier to just pass the buck and take no responsibility.