To as you to teach your child how to act around dogs?

[ToBeOrNotToBee]

I'm gobsmacked, truly, still around an hour or so after this event.
Dog and I have had a busy day travelling and exploring the countryside.
On our way home, coming off train 3 of 3 on the return leg, having been out for 12 hours, I walk to the lift (which is around a corner and obscured by a stairwell) at the end of the platform with dog to heel besides me.
We're waiting with a few others when this 5-6 year old child appears around the corner, running towards us, hands outstretched, literally beelining for the dog. I see what's about to happen and immediately put the dog behind my legs and put my hand out telling the child a stern 'No'.
The child then tries to go behind to reach my dog, who is cowering between my legs. I have no choice but to grab hold of the child's coat and physically stop them, letting go when the child stops trying to reach my dog.
After a moment or two, the Dad appears and then screams at me for touching his child. As he's midscream, the lift appears and I go into it with a few others and doors close as everyone else looks awkwardly at their feet.
The doors close, we go on our merry wall.
But I couldn't stop this feeling that the child will one day do that to the wrong dog and end up a dog bite statistic.
Say for example, I wasn't as switched on, and my dog as placid as he is, or in pain that day, and the child did poke him painfully causing him to snap and bite. Child would have been hurt, my dog potentially put down, and I get a conviction for having a Dangerous Dog Out of Control.
It's something I've noticed over recent years, people treating strange dogs as public property and not animals with sharp teeth and their own minds.
So please, teach your children not to run whilst on busy train platforms (or any train platform), to not approach unknown dogs, and if someone says no, to respect it.

Is that too much to ask???

I’ve never heard of such a thing. Perhaps the owners were omitting history?

I don't even understand why in a 2 bed terrace someone really feels the need to own a dog
I get it if you are a farmer herding sheep but not in a suburban society.

@TrailingLoellia why are you so hot on muzzles? Or are you a troll just winding people up?

What are the dog bite numbers? Hospitalisations because of dogs? Numbers of reports of out of control dogs?

I work in the courts. In my usual court I have seen fewer than 10 prosecutions for out of control dogs this year. (I'd need to check the stats for the exact number)
Fewer in the court on the other side of us but more in the one on the other side as that's in a big city.

Men with child abuse images are by far a bigger problem - most weeks see several coming through.

But sure, let's penalise the dogs. 🙄

🙄

By scaring children I was - obviously - thinking of a dog growling, barking and baring it’s teeth.

Sure, a growling dog could scare a child (growling dogs scare adults), as would a dog jumping about, but with a muzzle on it won’t scare nearly as much, and it certainly couldn’t bite.

It’s really not difficult.

Because my DD was attacked by a dog. A muzzle would have prevented so much of the harm. And don’t even think of victim blaming her or me. I fought that dog off after it jumped up and ripped her from my arms.

That suggests we should be prosecuting more dog owners. In any case I assume that if the police/wardens put dogs down for being out of control there isn’t a court case needed.

@TrailingLoellia Sorry to hear that.

Nope, was a 9yr old dog rescued at 1yr, with zero problematic history and the owners were a middle-class family with no criminal records. They just had a local judge who handled both the CPN and the supposed breach. He denied the CPN appeal, and the dog was put down before the second appeal was heard after months of delay.

The family pushed for the appeal without knowing that, it was heard by a different judge, and both the original CPN and the order to destroy were quashed, which is when they admitted that the dog had been killed anyway.

All because of a drunk and a badly-behaved kid. No consequences for anyone involved, but a massive legal bill for the family and a dead family dog.

So the child should be allowed to carry on hurting the dog, @WhileMyDishwasherGentlyWeeps? The owner isn’t allowed to physically remove the child that is hurting the dog, and the dog isn’t allowed to do anything at all to stop the child hurting them - so what is the owner or the dog supposed to do?

And why is it not an option to say parents should teach their children not to hurt dogs - or indeed any animal - and should supervise their children so they don’t hurt animals?

She is terrified of dogs, even tiny ones. She did nothing wrong, we were just taking a walk down the pavement to the park holding hands and as the dog ran over barking I scooped her up into my arms but then it jumped up latching on to her coat and pulled her out of my arms. I then dove after to try and get the dog off her, it released her only to bite and bite and shake its head while biting parts of her. I’m screaming “dog, dog, call off your dog” she’s screaming in pain and “mummy”. I still have nightmares from it.

If only dogs wore muzzles. Then it could have jumped all it wanted and I could have held on to her and kept her safe.

I am so sorry, that sounds awful. And yes, I'd happily muzzle every dog in the country to save that happening to one child.

Or...if all dogs were required to be on leads in public (except in designated dog-friendly areas), the dog would never have had the opportunity to even scare your DD.

That's a properly terrible occurrence, and I'm truly sorry it happened to you. It should never have even gotten close to that happening.

I know it doesn't make me popular among fellow dog owners, but I'd be all for a ban on off-leash dogs in public (as well as one banning retractable leads). It would massively improve safety for both dogs and humans.

I agree, I was in the park with my dog (on a lead) a few years ago and a child ran up and actually hit my dog. Luckily my dog is extremely tolerant but I did have words with the parents who didn't seem to give a shit to be honest. I do regularly get kids coming up and touching my dog without asking. I can't believe how stupid some people are.

I thought that in a recent case the dog had been on a lead, but was too strong for the owner and had attacked anyway.

I think that the father was wrong. I’ve always taught my children that dogs can be unpredictable & you should never trust how they appear. It’s generally best to calmly avoid them & never approach them.

YANBU, the importance of being kind, calm and gentle with all animals is a lesson that all parents should teach their children. Nobody should frighten animals for the very simple reason that it's cruel. Even if it's not an animal that could hurt a human.

It's sad the number of children who treat animals like toys and have never been taught to empathise with their feelings.

That suggests we should be prosecuting more dog owners. In any case I assume that if the police/wardens put dogs down for being out of control there isn’t a court case needed.

Police/wardens don't put dogs down. The prosecutors can apply for a destruction order in the event of conviction. Often the courts order the dog to be assessed by a professional and on the basis of that many are allowed to live - sometimes with conditions (yes, suck as your beloved muzzles) and sometimes the dog has been deemed to have been acting normally in the circumstances (ie defending itself from perceived attack)

I do wonder if the kind of parents who see no need to take responsibility for stopping their kids running up to dogs and grabbing them and getting in their faces would stop their child from chasing a sheep, throwing stones at a cat or pulling the legs off a spider. If a child isn't developmentally capable of being kind to animals an adult needs to keep a close watch on them in any place they might encounter them.

Yes, dogs need to be kept under control as well but two wrongs don't make a right.

It's also especially important that children know not to bother dogs in public spaces because sometimes the dog is actually working.

So the general concenus is...

Dogs are expected to stand motionless and tolerate any and all treatment from a child. The slightest movement, growl or bark from them = out of control behaviour = death sentence.

In future I'll ensure any approaching child is roared at and if necessary, grabbed, before they can touch my dog.

Whilst that might constitute a public order offence (And might result in your child being terrified, developing a fear of strangers, but thats a you problem...) it is preferable (to me!) to my dog losing their life and I think I could argue it a reasonable course of action given the expectations of parents regarding a/dog behaviour and b/their responsibilities towards their offspring.

Good to know.

Or... we could all be responsible for our own charges and exercise a bit of tolerance, perhaps?

Has anyone mentioned ‘act like a tree’ yet?

https://doggonesafe.com/be-a-tree

on a thread about teaching children how to act around dogs it is really important. I know this thread starts from the premise that the child wants to pet/bother the dog, but I see many situations where it is the other way round and and off lead dog wants to bother a child.

I have taught all my children to do this, and practiced it, and they have used it in scary (for them) situations where a dog their size is bounding up at them. It takes practice because a nervous child, especially if they are not right next to a parent, will want to run.

Esgaroth, what kind of work?

I taught my sons from a young age to always always ask before they fussed anyone's dog. I think the man probably overreacted. You did the right thing in my opinion.

Do you own any pets or are you just hating them all?

The stats point to the fact that MEN are more a danger to children than a dog.

Facts=Truth

Oh, this is MN. Their children are angels, even when they aren't; which sounds like in some cases is most of the time. Why teach a child to behave around animals when you can just dump the onus all on dog owners. I still wonder how many of these dog haters have cats.

But, the dog could be in danger from a wild, uncontrollable child, which you seem to advocate for. Maybe those children need to be leashed and muzzled too. The dogs would be safer.