To ask if we can please try to have Palestine and Israel thread where we acknowledge how awful it is for everyone, but try not to throw shit at each other?

[theotherfossilsister]

Please

From someone who does have 'skin in the game.'

@Candlelight34

If you read my other posts you will see that I am very much on the side of the Palestinians. I was responding to another person's post and think you have taken my comments out of context. No where did I justify their behaviour. But nevertheless their fear of the past has contributed, in part towards their behaviour.

Er men fighting to protect their women from other men using this conflict as an excuse to be violent and rape and kill women.

It is possible to be disapproving of Israel’s treatment of Palestinians and also condem Hamas and their actions today. Because they have actually fucked everyone in that area for the foreseeable. I’m sure they have their reasons but they are shit reasons. Anyone starting up with the ‘well in 1947…’ is just propping up that shit position.

Quite

What is happening today isn’t helping the people of Palestine.

Have you been speaking up over the years about the violence against the Palestinian people? Have you condemned Israel for their violence against innocent people?

I respect your depth of feeling here.

But if you are using some video footage of undisclosed provenance (I’m guessing from Twitter/X) to demonise an entire nation, that’s more like cult belief.

Please be aware of confirmation bias (essentially, giving more credence to whatever supports your existing position) and also of how many skilled manipulators are infesting social media.

@saffronsoup many people who "support Palestine" know nothing about the situation, know nothing about Hamas and the impact they're having. They want to support the underdog. They want a cause to fight alongside their friends. They turn their head at all of the bombings, rockets and attacks that Palestinians continue to make on a regular basis to innocent Israeli's and condemn any retaliation from Israel.

It's a joke and I'm sick of it. It's the most hypocritical bullshit that literally contributes the continued war.

@MsLavender

I was being somewhat 'lighthearted'. You can't seriously imagine that I would wish to eradicate millions of small boys and men. Besides which, who would put the bins out (again, a joke, lest you wonder). But nevertheless, it is men who tend to cause most of the fighting in the first place. Not all of course, but women would be much better off ruling the world imo.

@saffronsoup

Is it my job to be doing that? Because all I can see is a lot of people with no skin in the game making things an awful lot worse by shit stirring and politicising something that is a very complex, volatile situation.

I support orgs that do a lot of work and hopefully know more that I do, including a project run by a friend of mine that is all about making links between Israeli and Palestinian communities.

Marching about in London is fucking pointless. It make no difference to the lives of anyone in Palestine and the wank people spout online is actively harmful to meaningful change.

So I assume you will be speaking out when Israel disproportionately attack? They deliberately target civilians with weapons far greater than Hamas could hope to get their hands on.

Both sides (military) are retaliating and neither is innocent. Both have continued this war.

Anyone who thinks either side is innocent or only one side is retaliating and the other is the problem has their head in the sand.

How the fuck was the UK formed out of recent ethnic cleansing?

Animals. That is all.

@mollyfolk and the attacks over the past 24 hours haven't targeted civilians?!?!

Religious nut jobs, the lot of them. Zero sympathy from me. Amusing reading the rantings of ill informed "historians"

Waow, just as I thought you couldn’t be any more ignorant…

Then you have my apologies, with the absolute horrific comments I've been seeing all over social media it's hard to tell any more 😔

@mollyfolk Of course. I’m fairly sure condemnation of murder shouldn’t be dependant on agreeing with the victims religious views or nationality or politics.

The only people who do that are weirdos.

I was talking about the harm caused by countries. Obviously, you're one of the "Israel uniquely bad" crew. Just own your antisemitism. It will be a lot easier than constantly twisting and turning to find ways for Israel to be culpable and other countries not to be. And much more honest.- come on just say it- "I hate Jews!". It will be so freeing for you

@FlemishHorse Using my media training here and going to ask if you have any evidence that it is a fake. All the supporting evidence- from
multiple sources suggest it is real.

But do be aware of confirmation bias too. It can get the best of us. I know you don’t want it to be real but it does look like it is. Once you’ve accepted that you can move in the reasons why it excusable because you desperately want to defend the perpetrators.

@Ratsoffasinkingsauage

I have no idea where you got the idea that I was using the events of a history to justify the rape of women!! It's absolutely not a justification but it is a part explanation. And I'm afraid that unless you look to history for the reasons and how this got to this extreme position, you have less chance of resolving things in the future. I am certainly not bigoted, but come from a position of a historian. It's naive to assume that the past doesn't matter and hasn't shaped the extremism of individuals.

Israel and its major benefactor the US started us on the road to the current mess by their assessment that a Palestinian life was worth so much less than an Israeli one.
The 1,000 : 1 valuation ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilad_Shalit_prisoner_exchange ) was accepted by the Palestinians, leading to a horrible situation where - it seems to me - 998 volunteers being killed attempting to harm Israelis is acceptable if the 999th results in the loss of of an Israeli life.
It is why the hostages are being taken, because if the IDF can't find them quickly, they will become the currency of trade.

It's fifty years since Golda Meir was quoted as saying"Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us".

Those who will not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

@Oioicaptain

You are actually wrong there. In a conflict this entrenched the only way that people can move on is by letting go of the past. How is re-hashing everything that has been discussed 4 million times before going to help? It isn’t.

Neither side is going to wake up one day suddenly in a forgiving mood! Both sides have their own version of events. How will that ever change?

But the thing is, Israel could actually do things to reverse the historical wrongs that were committed.

It could withdraw from the occupied territories.

It could give the right of return to all Palestinians expelled from Israel from 1948.

Of course, both of these would entail huge complications, and possibly make it impossible for Israel to continue as both a democratic and a Jewish state. But that's just another way of saying that Israel's identity is predicated upon the condoning and perpetuation of those historical wrongs.

But pretending that "what's done is done" and out of anyone's hands now is both incorrect and dishonest. Much of what's done can actually be undone.

Netanyahu blames Palestine for the Hokocaust. He puts the blame on Haj Amin Al Husseini, not Adolfo Hitler.

He will never give Palestine anything and hence his plans to reduce Gaza and the people in it to rubble.

The holocaust should never be used in a discussion about current events, nor should the protection of Jews be used because of the holocaust.