To ask if we can please try to have Palestine and Israel thread where we acknowledge how awful it is for everyone, but try not to throw shit at each other?

[theotherfossilsister]

Please

From someone who does have 'skin in the game.'

All I’m defending is an idea of “the truth”, slippery concept that it is. There’s no right or wrong side here as far as I’m concerned.

Seventeen years with Reuters gives you some reliable gut feeling.

I’d be interested to see the multiple links to your supporting evidence that the footage (children being executed in the streets) is current from Palestine though.

Speaking up? Get the feeling that you think posting on Twitter or Mumsnet makes you feel like you have done something. An 'activist.'

Agree.

I just end up feeling so awful for all of the ordinary people on both “sides” - they aren’t responsible for either the Israeli government or the terrorist groups, they’re all just trying to live their live.

Honestly, I’ve no idea what the answer is, but killing more people isn’t it

This sounds right, tbh

I’m assuming from the overwhelming evidence of the past conflicts.

@TruckDiver Ukraine continue to undertake ethnic cleansing, thats why Russia invaded in the first place.

“Are even half as educated” …interesting statement. I wonder what you mean by that.

I can totally understand the desperation for these videos to be fake. I would be horrified to see videos like these uploaded by people I support, it would make me question my whole view of things They're clearly not fake though. So I think you need to accept what has happened today. There's no point trying to pretend it hasn't happened, millions of people have been watching.

I'm just going to say this before I go to bed. I think there's been an awful lot of assumptions on this forum tonight. People have confused explanations (particularly historical) with justifications. I haven't seen a single post that justifies the violence on either side and certainly not by Hamas. For my own part, I am a political and have publically condemned both sides on many other forums for the abhorrent and mindless acts of violence, which have had a huge detrimental impact upon both sides, particularly upon children. I have previously supported an aid charity that works with children in Gaza (again a charity and not a political organisation) and an organisation that seeks build connections between Palestinian and Israeli women. I am relatively neutral, but do believe that the actions of the Israeli govt over the years have inflamed the situation and I condemn Hamas. But what I also believe is that, despite the bickering, the vast majority of us here are actually on the same page. We came to this forum because we hate violence and are saddened to see the innocent victims suffer on both side of the conflict. And I think that we can all agree that our thoughts are with all those affected tonight and that we all sincerely hope that peace will follow (even if that hope may be unlikely).

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SabraanddShatilamassacre

Just read the section called Foreign reporters' testimonies

@oxitel

thanks for posting that - Sabra and Shatila massacres are horrific and the Israeli role in them just demonstrates that both sides are perfectly capable of committing atrocities

have you seen “waltz with Bashir”? It’s an Israeli animated film which covers the role the IDF played in the massacre.

It's hard to do that if the governing body - Hamas - has vowed to wipe you off the face of the earth. Doing so would just allow rockets to be fired deeper still into Israel. Hamas don't want a two state solution, so what is the answer?

@everythingwillpass

Russia invaded Ukraine to prevent ethnic cleansing?

How sad 😢

Hmmm the media wouldn't have reported Israel attacking Palestine first. You've only got a snippet of the story unfortunately. Yes let's REALLY call it for what it is - Israel imposes a system of oppression, control, domination and cruel discriminatory treatment against Palestinians; this is Apartheid. OP i know you wanted everyone to not take sides but @Hummingbird233 went there.

@JayAlfredPrufrock Yes; in the Donbas.

Today has been difficult with the treatment yet again of women and children, it’s hard as I was in the military in the Bosnia aftermath. Women’s bodies used as a trophy of war. The conflict at the moment is a secondary thought, my empathy is with them and the future women who will have the same fate.

This is exactly how every country in the entire western hemisphere of the planet was formed. The entire concept of the New World was premised on genocide and oppression. A majority of the population of the US is living on stolen land; If the indigenous populations decided to launch rockets from the reservations they have been relegated to and engage in the same level of viscous atrocities, I wonder if the responses would be as understanding and conciliatory? A previous poster mentioned the conflict in Yemen where 10 million people are on the brink of starvation and yet the moral outrage is non existent. We need to stop holding Israel to a different standard, especially when Hamas has proven that they are willing to sacrifice the well being of their own people to further their political agenda. The actions of Hamas are unconscionable and we need to be willing to condemn them as such for the sake of the Palestinians who are held hostage to their leadership as well as the Israeli people.

But the problem is that on both sides of the conflict the victims are the innocent civilians . They suffer for the actions of a minority. Most Israelis are not oppressors.

There are no justifications for the atrocities that have been committed today. And there is no point trying to. People have seen the videos, and people will make their own judgements. Today has been the worst day for the state of Palestine. Hamas have behaved like sub humans. And millions of people have seen it.

@JuvenileEmu This may seem pedantic but there is no such thing as “the state of Palestine”. That’s the whole issue in a nutshell. The Palestinians do not have and never have had a state of their own.

@Erivo unfortunately it's a world wide problem the treatment of women and children.

Sarah Everard and all the women killed by men it's everywhere sadly.

I was watching the long shadow about jack the ripper.
The attitudes towards the Victim was shocking.

We have worked hard, suffrage etc to get to where we are but even then women are being attacked and killed. Imagine how much father many of these cultures have to go tp free and liberate women?

*victims was shocking.

I remember as a junior assistant photocopying the draft agreement of the Oslo Accord and feeling real optimism. What a shame Rabin was killed by a fellow countryman who didn’t like that he was prepared to deal with the other side. Yet it’s the only way as in NI. But sadly, I can’t see this happening at all. I feel desperately sorry for ordinary people who are at the mercy of fanatical politicians.