To ask if we can please try to have Palestine and Israel thread where we acknowledge how awful it is for everyone, but try not to throw shit at each other?

[theotherfossilsister]

Please

From someone who does have 'skin in the game.'

@DuvetsAndDreams

How much power do you think a starving and dehydrated mother and her kids has, for example? How should she remove Hamas?

I am wondering as I read this post, if maybe she does have power. Hamas are recruiting into their terrorist cells, mostly young people. I think for them to be removed, they have to lose the support of the people. They can then refuse to join them, refuse to help then, refuse to hide them. I am not sure how feasible that is.

The Zionist movement didn’t affect Palestine/Israel until 1948.
That is when the conflict started.
No one had issue with Jewish immigrants moving to the region prior to this.

The British and UN did no such thing.

I’m really fucking not. I’m asking a question.

@IslaWinds

The Zionist movement didn’t affect Palestine/Israel until 1948
That is when the conflict started
No one had issue with Jewish immigrants moving to the region prior to this

Yes they did, they were kicking off about it like mad for ages. The British had to limit visas to something like 15k a year because the Arabs were completely against any more Jews long before 1948.

Because they had been the majority population for centuries. They saw Jewish claims on the land as being historic and felt that Europe were trying to offload millions of European Jewish refugees onto Palestine rather than deal with the tricky problem of all those displaced Jewish people returning to their home countries and asking awkward questions like “can I have back my house and my other stolen property that was illegally looted by the Nazis?”. They felt that Europe was making Palestine take the brunt of what was a European refugee crisis. Why Palestine rather than letting the Jews have Bavaria?

I think it'd amazing that Ukraine are allowed to fight back for their land and lives with bombs and fighting. But Palestine can't.

This was isn't about being against Jews or Israel. There are many Christians, Muslims and Jewish Palestinians living in Palestine side by side and very happy to do so. This wad is about taking what isn't yours. Treating the people of Palestine as animals. Israel have done horrific things to.women and children for years.

Km.not agreeing with hamas approach. But the Palestinions are well within their rights to fight back and should do so.

Those killed in israel where on illegally occupied land. They chose to be there. They chose to take this land from people. They chose to move in and create and live on a war zone.

"I am sure that a couple of weeks of no food and water will help focus minds and priorities amongst the Palestinians in Gaza and encourage them to remove Hamas from power, After all without food and water what have you got to lose?"

I don't resort to this language as a rule, but there is something wrong with you.

Only a sociopath would suggest starving women and children into submission, in the entirety futile hope they could overthrow a fanatical regime.

Words fucking fail me at the level of ignorance.

Also if Israel wants to make this about religion, you would think after the holocaust they would be against genocide and would never have started this in the first place.

”the Arabs”? The British controlled Palestine then as a League of Nations mandate. There was no “Arab” decision made about visas.

I'm not sure why limiting study to history within living memory would make any sense. I'm Irish, and let's just say our nationalist movement remembered things that happened 800 years ago. And not because anyone involved was immortal!

I'm not interested in talk about solutions, I want to understand the cause of the situation. That should come first. I would be completely opposed to anyone trying to 'help' if they haven't understood the situation first. That would be incredibly irresponsible in my view.

Not true. The Arab Uprising of 1936-39 was primarily about Jewish migration to Palestine and resulted in the British limiting Jewish migration to Palestine. Fatefully, the Second World War broke out shortly afterwards and so Jewish migration was restricted just as Nazi policy towards the Jews became significantly more violent and more and more Jews fell under their power as they invaded more and more of Europe.

@AhNowTed I think that's the dehumanisation talking - I mean the idea that starving a bunch of traumatised kids is a great idea!

Well, if you want to define the history of Israel as starting from before they even existed, that’s your prerogative.

That’s not true. These incursions include areas that were never meant to be part of any Palestinian state.

I didn't mention the UN. Ok, you're saying Lemony is lying about that. Seems an odd thing to lie about because I presume it would be easy to check.

@DuvetsAndDreams

"How much power do you think a starving and dehydrated mother and her kids has, for example? How should she remove Hamas?"

+++

Because the priorities of the civilian population will rapidly shift from celebrating the terrorist attacks to the more pressing concern of food and water.

Whilst the mother and her kids might not be able to remove Hamas from power , her husband, brother, family and wider community witnessing such starvation and dehydration will rapidly come to the conclusion that risking your life to remove Hamas from power is preferable to starvation and dehydration.

Well, what about the March of Return? They marched for over a year in 2018-2019 asking for refugees to be allowed home. In response, the Israelis killed hundreds of them and wounded thousands including children. I think 1 Israeli solider died.

Israel was investigated and condemned by all the usual suspects - the UN, Amnesty etc. But Israel answers to itself only.

Also, what about the West Bank? it is relatively peaceful and has been for years but Israel won't allow the people there the dignity of being citizens with human rights. I imagine Hamas looks at the West Bank and doesn't think that seems an appealing option.

Quite. It’s one of the cruellest and most unpleasant and cold posts on here.

@Slowlylosingmymind101

There are many Christians, Muslims and Jewish Palestinians living in Palestine side by side and very happy to do so

No there aren't!

Treating the people of Palestine as animals. Israel have done horrific things to.womenand children for years

What do you think Hamas are doing to their own people?

Those killed in israel where on illegally occupied land

No they weren't.

Honestly, I hope you read this thread. Or a book.

I wonder why people give into this bloodlust. The photos of Palestinians suffering are as heart wrenching as the ones of the Israelis at the desert rave. I sort of get it if you're an Israeli and identify more with other Israelis. But I don't understand it from other people at all.

You didn’t say Israel.

You talked about Palestine/Israel and said nobody had a problem with Jews coming to the region before 1948. Obviously, I agree with you that the history of Israel doesn’t begin until 1948 but that wasn’t what we were talking about.

Has Hamas indicated an appetite for it? Because its manifesto calls for jihad and destruction of Israel

@IslaWinds

”the Arabs”? The British controlled Palestine then as a League of Nations mandate. There was no “Arab” decision made about visas

I didn't say they made visa decisions.

I said they were kicking off about it.

’I am sure that a couple of weeks watching Israeli hostages be tortured and killed will help focus minds and priorities amongst the Israelis and encourage them to remove Netanyahu from power’.

Is an exceptionally unpleasant thing to write and not something I believe.