To ask if we can please try to have Palestine and Israel thread where we acknowledge how awful it is for everyone, but try not to throw shit at each other?

[theotherfossilsister]

Please

From someone who does have 'skin in the game.'

@Shumpalumpa

This is the IDF

A 19-month-old child has died in Gaza after waiting for five months for Israel to grant her permission to leave the blockaded enclave for treatment

No it's not. The IDF don't issue travel permits. It's the immigration authority. The one who has to carefully vet Palestinian travellers because they keep trying to kill Jews! Amazing eh?!

So if you want to blame someone, try blaming the murderous bastards who rape, kill, blow up civilians and make it too dangerous for their countrymen (even very sick ones) to freely travel into Israel. Their behavior yesterday will not only kill a bunch of innocent Jews, it will directly and indirectly result on deaths of their own people.

If they played by some form of standards of basic decency (for example not using children as terrorists) then their people would be a lot safer, but of course, "kill the Jew" is the main thing!

Also note, Gaza has had 80 years to establish a hospital of it's own. Set up education, train doctors, buy equipment with some of the eye watering aid money it gets and it's chosen it doesn't give a fuck about the health of it's own children. Not the education of it's people. Education is limited to "kill the Jew!!"

At what point are these grown adults responsible for themselves?

@Livinginanotherworld don't forget Susan Hall too

Read the article

“The Israeli MILITARY AUTHORITY over the Palestinian authorities, the Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories, did not respond to the Guardian’s requests for comment.”

You can’t blockade people and then expect them to build a hospital.

@nocantdo

an Israeli life has always been more valuable than a Palestinian life that's a fact which is why this part of the world is in conflict

I think it's actually a fact that our media makes more of a fuss about certain victims. It's inherently biased and racist. Hence Maddy McCann got so much attention as she was white, blonde and middle class.

But this is also disingenuous. It is not up to me or you to decide a value of a child's life. Hamas have no value of Israeli children's lives. They have, several times, deliberately bombed schools. Deliberately. They likewise have seemingly minimal value for their own children's lives -seeing as they strap suicide vests on them or use them in terrorist cells.

I think there's is the cringey western tendency to "baby" these people. They are self determined. They have decided that a life of Jihad is what they choose. They have decided to sacrifice lives on children on both sides deliberately because their aim is not to value life, but to end life.

They are grown ups. You can hold them accountable for that.

Any Israeli sympathiser, I hope you wouldn't have to live a day a Palestinian has lived through losing their homes, families, their livelihoods, their freedoms, basic healthcare, no where to escape, belittled, bullied and bombed

With the exception of the Jews in Israel who started out there, what you have described above happened to pretty much all of them. Almost all lived through losing their homes, families, livelihoods, freedoms etc and were almost obliterated from the face of the planet. About a million of them (including my family) had that happen in Arab countries - who treated my family 100x worse than anything you have ever or will ever hear Israel do.

Palestinian people, have, since 1936 been repeatedly offered peace and a home - which they have refused to take.

Palestinian people, have, since 1936 been repeatedly offered peace and a home - which they have refused to take.

What utter bullshit. It makes me disbelieve every word from your lips.

And exactly how would a new hospital happen? With no money, erratic electrify and water?

But only if the Palestinians LOVED and VALUED their children like the Israelis they would magic up a hospital out of thin air.

Never mind that the Palestinians are a collectively traumatised people.

These facts ?

even Jewish people are saying free Palestine, they don’t want to be associated with what Israel are doing
but people are still hellbent on using anti semitism as a shield any time someone is on the “wrong side”
YouTube shorts

@Marmite17

I don't think 80 years on they can keep pinning the blame on someone else.

The minute they decide they want to look after their own citizens, they can call a ceasefire and circumstances can be improved and they can have a functioning public healthcare system.

They don't choose that.

Their #1 priority is to kill Jews.

They are responsible for changing that, and until they do, Israel has to keep it's own citizens safe.

Most people don't have a clue who Giora Eiland is, including most Jews by the way. And they don't need to condemn him unless he's posted on this thread? If he has, do let me know.

What a bizarre take. We can only condemn people who have posted on this thread?!

All your arguments are designed to excuse everything Israelis do. Giora said something that had you in an uproar about anti-semitism when you thought that @BlippiIsAnnoying said it. But suddenly when an Israeli says it, it’s not relevant 🙄

@Shumpalumpa

Never mind that the Palestinians are a collectively traumatised people

Is this a serious comment? What in the fuck do you think Jews are?

Honestly you are just coming off as so insanely biased I can only conclude you either just hate Jews and thus can't form any sort of balanced opinion, or you are in some way being paid to write what you're writing.

It's blithering nonsense.

The ceasefire offered by Israelis isn’t worth the paper it’s written on. You know it, the world knows it.

You’re not fooling anyone.

You think you sound reasonable but you’re terrifying in your robotic propaganda.

Utter rubbish

You think you sound reasonable but you’re terrifying in your robotic propaganda.

People in glass houses

@LemonyTicket the peace deal only benefits Israel even your dog would walk away from that!

@Shumpalumpa

Stop talking complete crap.

This would be how a normal conversation would go:

PERSON A SAYS: "There are no innocent civilians"
PERSON B SAYS: "Whoah! that's a terrible thing to say!"
PERSON A SAYS: "Well I was quoting [insert name of someone they have never heard of]
PERSON B SAYS: "Oh, okay, nevermind".

you are inventing another imaginary and farcical scenario where person B would respond "Ah! Well then I thoroughly condemn [Insert name of someone they have never heard of] and if they don't say that it is some weird evidence of bias.

FGS. There is no need to "condemn" people you have never heard of who once may or may not have said something that someone you don't know just told you they said on a bloody forum!

you are desperately, desperately grasping at straws here when all you should be doing is condemning the murderous, vile, terrorist scum who went out of their way to murder a heap of innocent people.

Now get lost please.

Care of Lemony Ticket

The Palestinians have suffered 95% of the murders in the conflict. Yes, I’d say they are traumatised. This isn’t about Jews, why do you keep trying to make it so? If there are Muslims and Christians in the IDF they are just as culpable. The trauma suffered by Jews in the Holocaust is visceral and real, but it wasn’t at the hands of the Palestinians.

@nocantdo

the peace deal only benefits Israel even your dog would walk away from that!

Which one? The 1936 one gave them almost the entire country as per the below. They said "fuck off" to that.

Certainly the most recent one they said fuck off to gave them a bit more than they currently have with various perks as well as financial restitution.

You say only a "dog" would accept it, but my family were expelled on five separate occasions within the last three generations and left with the clothes on their back, not a penny and just got on with it.

Are we dogs?

Or did we just decide accepting a reasonable solution was better than spending 80 years trying to murder Arabs?

@Shumpalumpa

The Palestinians have suffered 95% of the murders in the conflict. Yes, I’d say they are traumatised. This isn’t about Jews, why do you keep trying to make it so?

Are you clinically deranged?

Nice editing of my post. 🙄

@nocantdo

Refrain from being abusive. I am a Jewish Arab, from the middle east and an academic historian in middle eastern history and theology. I am also a child /Grandchild / Great Grandchild of multiple refugees who's own homes were stripped from them in the middle east. Speak to me politely or I will not respond to you. I sure as shit earned the right not to be called a "tool" by some angry twit on the internet who's knowledge on the subject extends to what they think they learned on social media,

the peace deal never benefited Palestine you tool

Palestine has never existed. Ever. Creation of an existence of a group's own state benefits them over no state at all. They were offered almost all the land and said no. Their own fault. 50 years later they can't ask for the thing they rejected back.

Peace benefits people. Suicide vests and terrorism doesn't. A wise man knows this. Jews were expelled from their homes, lives, and land across the region in far greater numbers and they are not there 80 years later bombing people at music festivals. They got on and prospered.

The decision not to do that, has been made by a number of Arab nations who will not accept existence of a Jewish state of any kind. To then, the only "peace" deal they accept is one where they have a right to their own state and Jews do not. That is why every attempt to negotiate with them has failed.

The Khartoum Resolution of 1 September 1967 was issued at the Arab Leage Summit after the six day war. It contained اللاءات الثلاث (in English the three noes). Which were:

No peace with Israel
No negotiation with Israel
No recognition of Israel

And that, and only that, is why there has never been an agreement of peace.

What is your source for that map? The Encyclopaedia Britannica says differently.

For the first time a British official body explicitly spoke of a Jewish state. The commission not only allotted to this state an area that was immensely larger than the existing Jewish landholdings but recommended the forcible transfer of the Arab population from the proposed Jewish state. The Zionists, however, still needed mandatory protection for their further development and left the door open for an undivided Palestine. The Arabs were horrified by the idea of dismembering the region and particularly by the suggestion that they be forcibly transferred (to Transjordan). As a result, the momentum of the revolt increased during 1937 and 1938.

And as for your summation of the current plan ‘a bit more than they currently have’?! You really think they’re shit on your shoe, don’t you?