To ask if we can please try to have Palestine and Israel thread where we acknowledge how awful it is for everyone, but try not to throw shit at each other?

[theotherfossilsister]

Please

From someone who does have 'skin in the game.'

Exactly, @LemonyTicket.

But this is what Irish Republicans have done for a long time - equated Northern Ireland Troubles with places such as Israel/Palestine and South Africa. I'm sure you won't be surprised to know that Provisional Sinn Féin and Provisional IRA were part of an international terrorist network with terrorist groups in both places as well as with Colonel Gaddafi's Libya.

The reality of life for Catholics in Northern Ireland couldn't be more different to the one on the Middle East Republicans constantly try to link to. We could move freely throughout Europe, could vote in Westminster & Stormont elections, had housing, jobs and so on. Sure, things weren't perfect but they weren’t as dire as PSF/PIRA want people to believe. Check out the attachment for all the raft of civil rights reforms the Northern Ireland Civil Rights Association achieved before PSF/PIRA split from the IRA in January 1970.

The historical record shows PIRA never fought for civil rights and that Catholics overwhelmingly rejected them in favour of the SDLP led by John Hume.

In fact, Hume blamed the PIRA for various security measures and lack of jobs! He accused the Provos of shedding crocodile tears and called them fascists.

Hell, quite a few members of PIRA and OIRA have since acknowledged Catholics had it better than in the ROI or that those members personally never experienced discrimination.

Whatever anyone tries to say, John Hume was bang on the money in saying "There is not a single injustice in Northern Ireland today that justifies the taking of a single human life. If I were to lead a civil rights campaign in Northern Ireland, the major target of that campaign would be the IRA!"

All the reasons Republicans give for terrorism* *in Northern Ireland can also be applied to the Republicans doing same in the Republic of Ireland. PSF/PIRA also claimed the ROI was a fascist state and the Dublin Government was illegitimate! 🤦‍♂️

That's why it's so offensive as well as Republican propaganda to claim we had it just as bad in Northern Ireland as the black population in the United States or the Palestinians in the Middle East. No, it's really an attempt to justify the PSF/PIRA campaign of terrorism against the people of Northern Ireland. The Provos were indulging in fantasy war.

Black people in the USA never really did set up a terrorist group either. And they had every reason available to justify doing it as well.

There really is no comparison between the Northern Ireland Troubles, Catholics & Palestinians, Protestants & Israelis and the overall conflicts in both countries. They are very different.

The thing that links them is the international terrorist network. You can find PIRA murals online where they openly support Hamas as "fellow revolutionaries" and "political prisoners".

We weren't even surrounded by hostile States who declared they wanted to wipe us off the map - UK or Republic of Ireland, Catholics or Protestants, Republicans/Nationalists or Loyalists/Unionists!

Indeed, our conflict is nowhere near as complicated as yours! As you say, Hamas really aren't interested in civil rights and they are dictators. It REALLY is absurd for anyone to link Northern Ireland with Israel/Palestine in this thread.

Absurd.

Leave from the bits near the border Israel will bomb. Not leave Gaza.

@Peterrs33 Frankly I don't know how people can happily live next door to people who are caged in, punished and regularly bombed. I wouldn't want to, myself, but they must have their reasons. And what you say about the hostages is shameful, their families must be desperate for their return.

In response to those saying there is no route to peace here

I said exactly that once to a very wise old politics professor. He said that he had thought the same about Northern Ireland when he was my age (then 18), but that people do tire of war eventually.

I pray to God he is right. My thoughts are with all the Israeli and Palestinian civilians caught up in this. Such barbarism by Hamas.

Very strange how such a bunch of psychotic oddballs all parachuted in here together all of a sudden. Looks coordinated to me.

@Truthisbetterthanlies Zionists are out in full force I see. No amount of propaganda will erase Palestine and their struggle for freedom. Israel is an apartheid state and we all know how it went down in south Africa. I pray in the future we can see peace in that part of the world. Were the indigenous people are respected and able to return to their land.

It's a war crime, all parties need to be before the Hague. Will never happen though.

@ketchup07070

>It's strange Netanyahu telling Gazans to leave...

It was the thing that stuck in my mind. Of course it might mean leave the areas where Hamas is concentrated and head into... well the other areas of a fairly limited entity. Or leave Gaza, which is a challenge because, so far as I know, the border crossing at Rafah with Egypt, the state that incorporated Gaza before Israeli occupation (and later withdrawal), isn't free for everyone to cross.

Honestly, I have no idea.

Sorry, I don't speak dog whistle.

If you want to suggest that there's some dastardly conspiracy out there, you're going to have to actually spell out who you think might benefit from this.

As you appear to be the one convinced there's some grand conspiracy which escapes the rest of us.

@AnotherTeaPlease

That is how Hitler viewed Jews and wanted them done away with. How abhorrent you are.

If someone came and stole my house, my farm, denied me water and freedom of movement, put my children in prison and entered my place of worship to deliberately provoke, for years on end, I would probably want to do something about it. Not just roll over and take it. Especially when any Jew is allowed the 'right of return' - how that must sting.

Europe has to stand with Israel because it's responsible for this whole mess the first place.

Haven't heard of any of these (unverified) atrocities being mentioned but I guess the danger is we all retreat further into our echo chambers when something like this happens.

It's simple. Free the Palestinian people. Don't let racism blind you to their struggle.

@MMBaranova Other posters explained that he was saying to leave the border area as that's where they will be bombing. It's only 16 square miles, I think, so probably difficult to get very far away. I believe they will go in on the ground once they feel they have weakened Hamas' defences.

Indigenous people. Seriously? Is 1000 BCE early enough for you?

Haven't heard of any of these (unverified) atrocities being mentioned

Hamas have posted videos of them.

Yep this.

Israel is the Russian in the room. Centuries of history on its side and unable to differentiate the land from the people it represents.
Be more aboriginal. It belongs to us all. Not the richest.

And once they leave they won’t be allowed back in and the land will become settlements.

@Jazzandblues

Incredible to see soo many Zionists decry the typical fake outrange - Israel under attack, Hamas terrorists blah blah. The reality we all ought to be reminded of is that Palestinians in Gaza are living in an open air prison and Israel has been testing their nuclear missiles on women and children there. Every human rights org including Israeli ones consider Israel as an apartheid state. When will we see Palestinians as human and support them in gaining freedom?

Oh here we go, left wing twitter has arrived.

Everyone is (or should be) a "zionist". It's a very simple series of questions:

Do you believe Arabs have a right to self determination and self rule in the land they consider their homeland, with rights to live by their own customs, laws, religion and culture?

Yep

Do you believe Jews have the same?

Yep.

That's why since the question of this land ever came into existence, it was agreed by absolutely everyone except the Arab world that Jews had the same rights as every other people on earth.

If you think people don't "need" their own state and can live in accordance with their own customs, laws, religion and culture anywhere they want - then I suggest you pass the memo to the Arab world who do not want to allow others to live in any way other than is dictated by them.

So when someone is antizionist, I wonder why on earth they are against the idea of nationalism and preservation of national identity - but quite literally only for Jews.

Gazans have been offered peace and their own country for almost a hundred years and declined every time because they want Jews not to have one. They've failed to prosper for their own people and develop infrastructure, jobs, an economy, agriculture or anything of any use because they have spent the whole time trying to kill Jews.

Yes, the current Israeli government are awful by Western standards. They are also not even in the same ballpark as Hamas who are a terrorist organisation who impoverish their own citizens because they are extremists. Even the Arabs on the West Bank are working with Israel to try and stop them deliberately recruiting children to terrorist cells and Jordan has brokered support to help stop this.

I have never heard of Israel testing nuclear weapons anywhere, much less in Gaza.

Yes, every human rights org have designated Israel an Aparteid state. They have also issued reports twice as long against the Palestinians warm crimes and human rights violations against their own citizens. None of which you will care about because it's not the evil zionist bogeyman from your mind doing it.

The whole world sees Palestinians as human and wants peace, security and their own country to live and prosper in. Unfortunately every time they have been offered those things they have said no!

@Shumpalumpa Well, I imagine some Gazans might think that. That kind of thing has happened before. A lot for the government to manage, though, on top of occupying West Bank and Golan Heights.

Which side dear heart?

Why pick . Apparently sides both want peaceful lives. How hard can that be?

@Candlelight34

Stop the atrocities and oppression.Controlling water and energy

Ground water is rationed based on the Oslo accord. The Palestinian government is free to produce it's own water and energy, so one is stopping them are they? They have desalination technology and vast international support - I think countries have paid huge sums in aid for exactly this. Why can't they take responsibility for growing their own infrastructure? Why expect Israel to be attacked by them 24 / 7 and then give them aid?

What will happen to the hostages if Israel takes Gaza by ground?

Israel have not been invaded. They are not comparable to Ukraine.

@LemonyTicket Yes, the current Israeli government are awful by Western standards. They are also not even in the same ballpark as Hamas who are a terrorist organisation who impoverish their own citizens because they are extremists

You every other side has said this about the “other side” from time immoral ? Why are Hamas terrorist rather than having a proper army like Israeli?

What a load of made-up lies.

Let's see any evidence for any of that.

And as has been pointed out numerous times in this thread, Gaza has 2 borders - it also has a border with Egypt.

Surely you're not suggesting that Israel controls Gaza's borders with Egypt, a sovereign state??!