To ask if we can please try to have Palestine and Israel thread where we acknowledge how awful it is for everyone, but try not to throw shit at each other?

[theotherfossilsister]

Please

From someone who does have 'skin in the game.'

With the young people I see, they all understand what is happening . They are not just accepting the propaganda coming out of Israel nor the fake cries of Zionists in the west. That is reassuring. It won't be like this forever.

Another straw man.

Palestinians aren't labelled terrorists because they 'protect their own'. They're labelled terrorists for committing acts of terror.

I challenge you to tell me how raping a woman till she's visibly bleeding through her clothes or spitting on the corpse of a naked tourist helps Palestinians to 'protect their own'. It doesn't. It is terrorism, pure and simple.

And you are a disgusting, disgraceful apologist for terrorism and mass murder.

@Efacsen

Some arms are smuggled in by sympathetic regimes (Iran, Syria) but also some is actually manufactured in Palestine. They are making guns for example.

Also though, the lines of allegiance are not necessarily black and white. President Abbas is working with the Israeli government to get a hold on terrorist activities in the West Bank. Apparently Hamas and PIJ (Palestinian Islamic Jihad) are trying to recruit poor children into terrorism and Abbas' forces have been charged with cracking down on these terrorist cells.

Israel just also openly approved a huge shipment or arms and tanks yada yada from the US to The West Bank, as it was said they would use them to take control of terrorists. No idea if maybe some of that went amiss and into the wrong hands.

I don’t think you have ever been to Palestine.

It was a massive failure of Israeli security though and that's being said within and outside Israel. And there have been questions over some Ukrainian decisions which might have put them in a better position against the invasion -this from Ukrainians too. Why should there not be if they are warranted.

Have you heard some brainless/spineless remarks by Lib Dem and Greens.

Along the lines "we stand for all the good against all the bad". I don't know is it political correctness or simple stupidity.

It's also well-known that Palestine uses schools and nurseries as rocket launch pads and weapons depots, so that when Israel targets them (having told those inside to leave beforehand through several warnings), they can then tell people like you "ISRAEL ATTACKS SCHOOLS", and then you can disseminate this "information"

@ChickenSoupAndLokshen Why do you think he is telling them to leave, if it isn't possible do you think? Also, he must know that they will be reluctant to leave homes they might never get back - it seems possible Israel will occupy Gaza as it does west bank, so any Gazans who leave may become permanent refugees.

Which bit of mass murder videoed live by Hamas counts as Israeli propaganda, or 'fake cries of Zionists', in your book?

Gosh you sound nice.

And completely normal. Not remotely like a psychopath.

I believe this is the most recent report from them, with data from up to December 2022. Looks like there's declining support for a two-party state from both sides, with only 30% and 31% saying their preferred option is to reach a peaceful agreement.

Interestingly, the report also shows that only 22% of Palestinians say they are willing to act in order to promote good relations between Israeli Jews and Palestinians vs 70% for Israeli Arabs and 56% for Israel Jews.

pcpsr.org/en/node/928

It was an intelligence catastrophe. Shin Bet and Mossad are probably rated as the best intelligence agencies in the world. The failure of the former to even have a sniff of this Hamas operation is a catasrophic failure on their part.

Well that's a cryptic post.

Care to explain it, or state what relevance it has to LemonyTicket's excellent post?

If you pen up any group of people and treat them as less for many years and take what little they have via land grabs, you should not be surprised that bite back.

this is what Israel has done to the Palestinians over many years. It is now a hive of radicalisation that allows groups like Hamas to thrive. It hasn’t been helped by the US supporting the land grabs and the sheer stupidity of Trump moving the American embassy to Jerusalem - such a poor move for any attempted peace.

what is difficult to work out is how much is Iran and US (external)/and how much is Israel v Palestine (internal) . It has been going on so long now, working out who is to blame is impossible.

what I do know is that the fault does not lie with…

the kids at the music festival
the Palestinian families in the (now) bombed tower blocks.
the kidnapped Israelis
the Palestinian people living with no food, power, etc as Isreal have blocked it.

Shall we play Antisemitic Trope Bingo?

I just scored It's All A Jewish Conspiracy.

Advocating mass murder of innocent civilians? By that logic Israel should be attacked because of the settlers

Well one thing is sure : Norway doesn't need anyone's oil. Or tech for that matter. The US is 100 % behind Israel. Russia is a hot mess - and can't even protect its former Soviet Republic , Armenia. And China isn't interested. The EU is focused on Ukraine.

Norway as good an honest broker as you'll get.

He didn't. He told them to leave specific named places (the previous sentence).

@ketchup07070

I think this has potential to escalate into global conflict, which won't be good for anyone. If America and the UK get involved, maybe other Muslim countries will, maybe even Russia or China. It seems a dangerous game. I'd rather they were talking about restoring order, peacekeeping and negotiation than about making sure Israel has the best weaponry to punish Gaza

I have thought for a long time that Hamas were building up to another uprising, and the worry is, Israel has now exhausted all attempts at peace. I do realise they should pull out of the West Bank and behave a heck of a lot better, but 75 years of experience tells them it won't make any difference. They're simply not going to accept any deal where Israel continues to exist.

So once they start another uprising (which might be happening) I greatly fear that Israel will indeed just build up to wiping them off the map. They will reign hellfire now, won't they? And unfortunately there are only three ways this goes:

• Palestinians accept a two state solution and Hamas is replaced democratically with an elected government who agree to live in peace with Jews.

or

• Palestine (certainly Gaza) is blown away or otherwise completely taken over by Israel

or

• The fighting and bombing and killing goes on indefinitely

I don't see any other outcomes and given how right wing this government are, and their increasing aggression - I think they will go for the second. It is truly tragic that leaderships have successively failed to simply agree to a two state solution and I am so saddened by the way things have gone.

Both places could have been prospering and living as allies. They was never any need at all for this.

Nothing to do with religion.

The USA has often attacked itself to justify attacks on others.

Is that anti-semitic too? 🙄

Stop equating Israel with Judaism.

@vittoria9

When I visited Israel, something that struck me was just how much Arabs appreciated their Israeli citizenship. They did NOT want to live under the Palestinian authorities, and witnessing their harmonious relationships with their Jewish friends was very touching

Absolutely. There is no reason on earth they can't live side by side. My sister is married to a Muslim and both families get on brilliantly. We actually have so much similarity in terms of culture. Like anything, extremists get in the way.

Your one post away from blaming George Soros.