To ask if we can please try to have Palestine and Israel thread where we acknowledge how awful it is for everyone, but try not to throw shit at each other?

[theotherfossilsister]

Please

From someone who does have 'skin in the game.'

@Ketchup I think this has potential to escalate into global conflict, which won't be good for anyone. If America and the UK get involved, maybe other Muslim countries will, maybe even Russia or China

I'm not sure global conflict is on the cards. Proxy wars serve our purposes well enough so no need to escalate. In addition, the Palestinians have very little that we need and are therefore not worth fighting for. I can't see any sup[erpower springing to their defense, militarily. Iran, their closest ally wouldn't dare. On the other hand Israel has very useful Pharma, IT, defense and electronics industries, which are. That is the realpolitik of the conflict.

Until nations have leaders that are motivated by making the world as a whole a better place for all, rather than obtaining and maintaining power, the situation will continue.

The Norwegians had a good go at trying to resolve things 30 years ago, with limited success. It would be great if they had another go. The Norwegians are one of the very small number of nations that I would trust.

Israel has the highest GDP per capita after Qatar $52000/ year. Gaza is $3000.
Hamas administration has created a failed state.
That's why Israeli Arabs are very happy in Israel.

I am disgusted by the amount of SM posts praising these atrocities by Hamas. Lots of chanting of Allan Akbar and proclaiming of martyrs.

This is basically a religious war against Jews and always has been IMO. I researched the history a few years back as DH comes from a Muslim country which hates Jews due to generations of indoctrination. I used to ask him to convey exactly why he hated them and he struggled to give a coherent answer, basically saying they have too much money and don’t share it! They are generally very successful and intelligent people (major generalisation I know), I mean they did make an oasis in the desert. A lot of it is jealousy I think?

They are the most persecuted group on the planet and have been for many years. I don’t blame them for wanting to create what should have been their own safe state in their ancestral homeland that they were forced from previously by the rise of Islam. I read that a lot of land was bought from the Ottoman empire before it was partioned?

I don’t believe Israelis have behaved anything like Hamas. They have had to defend themselves and I don’t blame them for doing so.

Isn’t the reason Palestinians live in poverty because they voted in a terrorist group who wants to wipe Israel off the map? Aid was stopped by Israel and the US because of that iirc. They don’t want peace, they rather starve their own children. They want death to Jews

How the fuck can throwing a Molotov cocktail at a vehicle by a 17 year old not be with the intention to kill the occupants? How can these acts be minimised by Hamas supporters? I don’t remember any reports of Israel arming children, or using them for suicide bombing, or using schools, hospitals or residential areas to store their arms. How can the rape and murder of women and children be OK because they’re Jews?

It just shows that tribal savagery is still present in a lot of people who are thick as shit to boot.

This is Iran trying to derail the imminent US-Saudi talks about formalising Israeli-Saudi relations. Iran has always funded and supported Hamas. They’ve directed this attack. They should suffer the consequences.

It's strange Netanyahu telling Gazans to leave. That's probably very difficult for many of them, and even if they did doesn't that mean they will become refugees if Israel goes in and re-occupies it?

There has been a very good explanation on another thread by an informed poster. Before there is any strike on a Gaza building the IDF do a 'roof knock'. Essentially a large pyrotechnic that explodes on the roof, shakes the building to alert people to get out. An hour later the missiles level the building. This gives time to get people out.

There is clear evidence of this on the Al Watan tower footage from yesterday. These were Hamas offices. This means they even took the trouble of ensuring any civilians working in the building could remove themselves an hour before the building was levelled. This even meant Hamas people could leave. You might remember 9/11. Speaks volumes to me.

100%

Stop the atrocities and oppression.

Controlling water amd energy.

It is an open prison. Why is Israel shocked when the oppressed fight back

They will never live in peace until they learn to changes their ways free this nation.

Is it?

Since when is there a definition of far right that doesn't include Nazi?

@Andnowtowhatcomesnext

There's' much more detailed information on the thread, but I think your explanation is missing a fair bit.

• Many Jews never left and made up about 20% of the population
• The disapora went on for thousands of years, and wasn't just a "one time thing" hundreds of years ago
• Jews dispersed all over and a lot were in Arab countries and had never been given equal rights or safety anywhere for thousands of years
• Jews had been emigrating "back home" to Israel for a long time before Israel existed by buying land and farming it
• Arabs weren't really "turfed" out of their homeland, or at least that wasn't the initial proposal. They grew in number under Ottoman rule to dominate the area, but once Britain took rule of what is now "Israel" during WWI the Arab population and the Jewish population were bickering because they both wanted to "rule"
• It was offered that the land was split into two states (much more in favour of Arabs in this first offer) but the Arabs rejected it and refused any Jewish state
• Things got worse and worse for Jews and more and more moved to Israel (legally) which pissed off the Arabs. A lot of them came from Arab countries though where they were facing increasing antisemitism.
• The Holocaust happened and lots of Jews suddenly liked the idea of Israel as they felt they would never be safe unless they finally had a proper state of their own
• This culminated in Jews accepting a "two state" country where they had a bit and Arabs had a bit. Jews accepted it, Arabs didn't and several other Arab countries agreed they would not accept any Jewish state and went to war against the Jews. They lost
• Lots of attempts have been made to offer peace and a two state solution and they have all been rejected by the Arabs.
• No, people on "both sides" do not have civilians are "taking it to radical extremes". There has been a campaign of terrorism for decades which you can read about here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_political_violence

surely it’s possible to both understand the feelings for both sides AND utterly and unreservedly condemn the recent actions of Hamas?

Yes it is, but I think sensible people also have to accept that peace and safety for Palestinian people can only come if Palestinians accept a Jewish state and go forward with a peace deal.

Israel has been testing their nuclear missiles on women and children there

What interney sewer did you get that one from, Jazzandblues?

Israel has been testing their nuclear missiles on women and children there

Sources?

Testing nuclear weapons -really?

This absolutely

9/11?

How is murdering over 200 ravers at a music festival fighting oppression?

Israel warns the residents of the blocks of flats in advance, usually multiple times, to avoid loss of life of innocents.

This is well known.

>No one knows the way forward

Maybe. However, the hostage taking was deliberate and what happens to them next has presumably been planned. I'd also bank on the Israeli forces to have a good idea how they are going to handle the next 48 hours or so.

How deranged are you. How is Israel able to sell it's weapons.... it litterally markets it as "field tested". Tested on women and children who have no where to flee because Israel has blocked every means of exit for them.

BBC news right now “a failure of Israeli security”. Fuck off. Somehow it wasn’t a massive failure for Ukraine when they were invaded, was it?

Why is Israel never treated like other countries?

Because when it's pointed out that in the analogy, Israel is Russia, not Ukraine, it's shouted down?

Egypt could open up its border if it wanted to. But it doesn't. Because it considers Hamas to be a terrorist organisation.

"Fake outrage"?

These are people's relatives who are being kidnapped and murdered. Israel is a tiny country. Several hundred people being killed is significant for the Jewish community.
Would your outrage be "fake" if your Holocaust-surviving grandma was taken hostage?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/10/08/abducted-grandmother-gaza-hamas-holocaust-survivor/

I'm not going to derail a thread this important. If you want to learn about the current European far right the internet is your oyster.

Don't you think someone might have noticed?

For example there has been a Red Crescent/Cross and UNHCR presence in Gaza for a very long time