To ask if we can please try to have Palestine and Israel thread where we acknowledge how awful it is for everyone, but try not to throw shit at each other?

[theotherfossilsister]

Please

From someone who does have 'skin in the game.'

‘Palestinians attack Israel, killing and hurting mass people - "it's sad on both sides".

WTF. ‘

pretending that this is happening in isolation, serves no-one and certainly won’t help bring any kind of resolution.
this isn’t Russia invading Ukraine. This isn’t peaceful, faultless Israel and bad, evil Palestine.
Most of the world sees that, hence the sad on both sides comments. the hundreds of deaths of innocents that will follow is sad, regardless of which side the victims are on.

I know when people say far right all anyone can hear is Nazi. It's a rather more complicated world than that, especially since we're talking about the present.

@chatenoire

I do not presume polls are completely accurate, but the data on Palestinian civilians approval over time has been according to Wikipedia indicating that most of the time Palestinian citizens do support these kinds of attacks :(

A 2001 poll conducted by the Palestinian Center for Policy & Survey Research (PSR) found that 58 percent of Palestinians supported armed attacks against Israeli civilians inside Israel.

A May 2002 poll by the center found that support for bombings of civilians inside Israel dropped to 52%.

Firing rockets from Beit Hanoun was supported by a majority of Palestinians (75%) but at the same time 83% of Palestinians favored a mutual cessation of violence suggesting they do want peace more generally but still support violence if it's tit for tat.

A report indicated support for attacks on Israeli targets stood at 34–40 percent in 1997–1999, climbed to 65–85 percent in 2000–2004, and dropped back to 41 percent at the end of 2004.

A 2005 poll by the center indicated that 50 percent supported "suicide bombings against Israeli civilians", and 36 percent supported "the resumption of military operations against Israeli targets"

A March 2008 report by Palestinian Center for Policy & Survey Research (PSR) noted that the level of support for armed attack against Israeli civilians inside Israel increased significantly with 67% supporting and 31% opposed, compared to support by 40% in 2005 and 55% in 2006.

A February 2008 suicide bombing that killed one Israeli woman was supported by 77% and opposed by 19%. An overwhelming majority of 84 percent supported the March 2008 incident where a Palestinian gunman killed eight students and wounded eleven in a Jerusalem school.

So I do think there are big numbers of civilians that support it, but in fairness a lot of them have been hurt or lost family members so it's hard to say how they would feel if they were living in peace.

You kind of lose sympathy though when you see savages parading a naked dead woman around in the back of their truck. I'm not Jewish but I stand with Israel.🇮🇱

Google is heavily biased in its search results, and Palestinian media is totally unreliable.

What scares me the most are the number of people that can see these animals intentionally murdering civilians and have enough nerves to justify them. If you justify them you are one of them!

@Museya15 have you not seen the video of a little Palestinian boy being beaten and laughed at by Jewish boys directed by a soldier. Or Jewish soldiers pissing on dead bodies?

I feel physically sick at any human being treated in any way but what the poster said is correct.

The Israelis started this in the first place and it's only the Palestinians who get called terrorist for protecting their own country

Hamas knew how the Israeli government would react to their appalling attack on Israel. They have seen it play out before. They knew that power would be cut, bombs would drop on Palestine and already suffering Palestinians would die horrible deaths.

They will end up effectively causing brutal harm to Palestinians as well the atrocities they have committed to Israelis. How can they justify this? It is truly heartbreaking for all the victims caught up in this shit and makes me furious.

They aren’t animals ffs. They are human beings doing this.

@Truthisbetterthanlies and @StowOnTheWold if you look at this situation in a completely detached way, who might actually benefit from this current scenario ? There are a couple of players who might. That isn't to say they have had any part to play in it, hence the reference to Hanlon's razor.

Are you aware that Hamas literally strap suicide vests to little children?

Biden has promised to supply better weapons for Israel and Sunak is promising support - not sure of what sort. But should the international community be helping to exact fearsome revenge? I know order needs to be restored, but I'd rather they were offering to help negotiate than just give one side better weapons to use on people with no food, no water and no medical supplies - who can't even flee the area.

@Helpmepleaseimbusy

Those who want other evidence - pls feel free to do a Google search. I don't feel the need to spoon feed people evidence. If they are truly interested in the subject and care, they can do the research themselves
Let's also pls remember many things are not reported in the media
It truly is an awful situation for the Palestinians

So you just came here and said Israel do the same things as Hamas and when asked to give evidence you pulled the old "do your own research".

Let me help you.

Israel have never dragged a naked civilian woman through the streets with her legs broken celebrating and firing guns into the air after murdering her at a music festival. Nor anything like that.

It is not reported in the media because it has never happened.

Numerous NGOs and human rights lawyers are on the ground providing support to Palestine, and if war crimes happen they are reported. Palestinians would be the fucking first to report them if they happen.

If they are so secret that nobody reported them, then I assure you that you wouldn't know about them either!

When videos like this emerge, Israeli people and the government and the military are united in their horror and condemnation of such behaviour. It is not the norm and it is not in any way sanctioned by the state.

Palestinian authorities, on the other hand, literally mandate the killing of children.

Did the boy die? Were the dead bodies terrorists?

I'm finding it terrifying tbh. I've just seen a very prolific Green MSP tweet along this line and am totally gobsmacked. I'm really worried how this is all going to play out in the UK for British Jews who will yet again be held to account for whatever Israel retaliates with.

I hope that every inch of Gaza is flattened, the people driven into the sea, and every trace of their culture burned.

No no no!!! That is an abhorrent thing to say.

@AnotherTeaPlease

Shocking.

can there ever be peace or will it always be war ?

@AnotherTeaPlease They have quite a lot of Israeli hostages in Gaza, for one thing. That would be madness.

@AnotherTeaPlease I find your view disgusting (at best). Utterly contemptable.