This deserves condemnation

[Lovepeaceunderstanding]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12605083/hamas-gunmen-kidnap-israeli-grandmothers-gaza-strip-reports-civilians-golf-carts.html

In case you think The Daily Mail is an unreliable source:
https://apple.news/AWcHkyMvsSDiauaN71cjJ6Q

Now maybe foreign governments will take Israel more seriously when Israel describes the level of threat they are under

They already know, everyone knows.

Not sure it will be enough to change anything. I am not saying it shouldn't, but this is just another "incident", let's pray it's not the final straw.

Maybe it wouldn't have happened at all if Israel hadn't fucked over the Palestinians.

This.
I'm not condoning the violence, but surely when you decide to invade a territory, expel, kill, and brutalise the people who were living there, and force the survivors into refugee camps, you shouldn't be too surprised when they retaliate??

Violence breeds violence, if you want to live peacefully don't colonise territories that don't belong to you

Maybe if Irael stopped stealing other people's countries, they wouldn't face uprisings.

Getting what is rightfully yours is not "stealing". Victim blaming as usual, and finding pathetic excuse to violence, terrorist attacks, targeting civilians and all the horrors we heard about for decades.

There's no prescription on getting what is rightfully yours.

Events of today prove yet again why Israel has to defend itself.

That land was first settled by Jewish tribes. Who are you to say it rightfully belongs to Arab occupants who are “retaliating” by kidnapping elderly women and raping other women.

There are no winners in this situation. I feel scared for all the people in this region - Israelis and Palestinians.

No idea what Hamas are thinking?! This is NOT the way.

And for all the usual suspect bleeding hearts who come out on the side of Hamas…where were you when your own country was terrorising the north of Ireland? Were the IRA just freedom fighters defending their people when they were blowing up Birmingham or London or Warrington? Idiots.

There are no winners in these wars. None.

@gettingolderbutcooler that's such a simplistic perspective.

Of course, it's utterly horrific.

Even more horrific is the amount of people who will turn this around to blame Israel. Antisemitism is rife and I just can't even engage with the debate anymore, it's too sad.

"They" didn't screw anyone over. The area was carved up and Israel created out of western guilt for failing to stop the holocaust (when many allied nations knew what was going on)

@gettingolderbutcooler , do you support this action from Hamas?

Yes. 🙏🏻

I know but we must. 🙏🏻

I condemn every loss of life. Palestinians are under siege on their own land, the Israelis are stealing land every day and building more settlements and killing Palestinians with impunity.

Exactly.

Some of the videos I saw last night were horrific. The bodies of raped women being paraded on the back of trucks. Women and children being taken. Absolutely no justification for any of it. Could have just targeted the military if that's what it's about rather than raping women and killing kids. Barbaric

There's the potential for this to lead to more violence globally. The amount of people flying Palestinian flags and almost "celebrating" is extremely concerning. I've seen videos on social media of this happening in Istanbul, Canada, London and US.

What Hamas is doing now is unacceptable.

What Israel has been doing to the Palestinian people for decades is equally unacceptable.

The land under dispute has been settled by both Jewish and Arabic peoples since the late Stone Age - the archaeological evidence is pretty clear on that.

In an ideal world, both sides would get together and sort it out. Unfortunately the creation of the state of Israel put paid to that - not because it happened at all, but because the interests of local Palestinians were completely ignored at the time.

The roots of this lie in the past, there isn't an easy fix and right now the victims are ordinary Israelis and ordinary Palestinians.

And for all the usual suspect bleeding hearts who come out on the side of Hamas…where were you when your own country was terrorising the north of Ireland? Were the IRA just freedom fighters defending their people when they were blowing up Birmingham or London or Warrington? Idiots.

It's strange that you never see that defence except in the context of Israel.

@duchiebun what the IRA did had its roots in the 12th century and the ongoing occupation of Ireland by the English. It's not a defence, but it absolutely is an explanation. Obviously what the IRA did was 100% wrong - but so were the things the English did in Ireland.

If the

@pointythings I'm Irish & well aware. But you misunderstood my point, when people talk about the troubles on here for example it's not excused by the treatment of Irish people, I mean many in England don't even understand much about the Troubles but apparently many are experts on Israel & the Palestine.

You don't see 9/11 or 7/7 excused by the Wests actions

Not so straightforward. Israel didn’t invade. In 1947 the UN General Assembly voted on the partition plan of the land under the then British mandate of Palestine (and Transjordan). This was adopted by 33 votes to 13 with 10 abstentions. The Jewish side accepted the UN plan for the establishment of two states. The Arabs living there rejected it and with the surrounding Arab countries launched a war against the newly founded Jewish state seeking its annihilation. They lost. Israel seized the opportunity to occupy a good part of the territory allotted to the Arab state during this war. Jordan and Egypt also occupied until the 1960s land meant for the 1947 Arab state. Headache prevents me writing all the subsequent events, wars, intifadas, (v negative role of Hamas last 20 years or so) and problematic Israeli settlements, but it’s a complex, sad situation.

Always liked this 2014 piece https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/lliana-bird/why-im-proisraeli-and-pro-palestinian_b_5592220.html