A woman is a woman

[EmotionSickness]

For those who have been following the Tory conference and general themes of their speeches…

How do you feel about Sunak’s speech?

I know there has been a lot of discussion on here from those who didn’t want to vote for a party that didn’t know the definition of a woman.

Rishi has stated clearly that “a woman is a woman and a man is a man.” While I’d argue that still isn’t a definition, per se, he is appeasing this way of thinking.

So I’m just wondering. Is this enough for you to vote Tory at the next election?

I'm another 'politically homeless' one after only ever voting Conservative. I swore after Brexit and lockdown that I would never vote Conservative again. But recognising that women and men can't change sex is a point in their favour. The prospect of VAT on school fees under Labour would be enough to make me vote Conservative after all.

In the end, it won't make any difference what I vote as I'm in such a massively Conservative constituency. But on balance, of all the shitty choices, I would have to choose them because the alternatives are even worse.

Surrounded IRL . On mumsnet you are allowed to think that you cannot change sex.

But they don't pretend that. Starmer's statement on it is linked on this thread, you don't have far to look.

As a black pastor said...a woman is your MAMA...not your daddy😂

Right so what do you think Labour are going to do about it?

Because I'd be on at them about their stance, afaik they are under the thumb of lobbyists who want any male to be able to enter women's single sex spaces?

Look at how they treated Rosie Duffield as well.

I get that you won't vote Tory, I won't either but the Labour Party do need to do better on this.

@TeenDivided Yes, Stonewall played an absolute blinder. How many other campaign groups manage to be paid handsomely for promoting their cause?

Agree with all this and yes to

It’s not bigoted to want my daughters and mother to be able to go to the toilet, or a hospital or a jail or a changing room or compete in sport in a single sex environment.

"A man is a man and a woman is a woman" is just as meaningless as "Transwomen are women". Circular definitions are meaningless.

No that doesn't make the tories any more electable.

A woman is an adult human female and has the personal freedom to express her personality however she chooses, including trying to follow the stereotypes of what men are supposed to conform to, in which case she might also be a transman and ask people to use "he/him" pronouns as a courtesy, but equally might prefer not to be considered a transman and may embrace another term eg "butch"

A man is an adult human male and has the personal freedom to express his personality however he chooses, including trying to follow the stereotypes of what women are supposed to conform to, in which case he might also be a transwoman and ask people to use "she/her" pronouns as a courtesy, but remains male for the purposes of any situation where males and females are separated for reasons of privacy, dignity or safety.

Trans status should never be grounds for discrimination or disrespect. Acknowledging physical reality is not discrimination or disrespect.

Any political party that doesn't have the above as their policy is just as misogynistic and gaslighty as the rest and as none of them have the courage to make such a declaration I will just have to make my vote based on other issues in line with my broadly socialist and liberal outlook.

Having only 2 (realistic) voting options, when one is deliberately cruel and the other utterly batshit is no option at all.

I’m politically homeless and in truth have no idea what I’ll do. The Tories are predictably manipulating. And I feel utterly failed by Labour and Starmer’s cowardice and lack of integrity on this. I’m really worried.

In fairness to the tories and on this one soul issue alone, the world believed what they were being told

"The world" is remarkably thick en masse. "The world" was in favour of lockdown, and all the people who were happily furloughed couldn't see that it was going to end up with economic meltdown. "The world" in this country was in favour of Brexit because they didn't want EU-shaped bananas. Nobody with an iota of a brain cell could ever have believed that a man can become a woman (and vice versa).

No, it certainly isn't enough to make me vote Tory. It's not as if they've actually done anything useful in terms of feminism and women's rights over the last 13 years, and we know that if anything they want to take away things like maternity rights.

He's not really said anything though. As a PP pointed out his party includes full TWAW as well as 'woman is an adult human female'. So which woman is he using in his sentence?
Not that it matters. This bunch of Tories are the most corrupt and unscrupulous in living memory. There will be nothing of the country left if they are voted back in.
That doesn't mean I'd vote Labour - if I wanted to vote for a party full of idiots that's anti-striking, I could just vote Tory. The two main parties are dangerous jokes.
And yy 'trans rights' is a niche issue that only affects 0.5% of the population. But women's rights aren't niche - they affect 51% of the population. They impact everything from education, sports, safeguarding, justice, childcare, healthcare, employment rights, freedom of belief, etc. Don't ignore how important they are because certain parties are trying to reframe the assault on women's rights as an issue about a tiny minority. If we actually had a woman's party that knew what a woman was it would wipe the board.

They have blood on their hands. Their cuts to the NHS & emergency services have quite literally led to the unnecessary deaths of countless people. But as long as your wealth is protected, eh?!

If a man wants to wear a dress and call himself Brenda, that's OK with me

But it doesn't stop there, and that's my concern. eg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isla_Bryson_case

Yes - Not because this has changed my mind but because I think they are the better option

It’s still marching on elsewhere. No where has started down this path to then reverse. We might be able to but depends on what people decide

Im at a loss, no idea who to vote for, scrapping HS2 is the only thing Tories have done that has been great in my eyes for years, but as they are all out for themselves not the country as a whole, i was hoping some party would step out that had grown a huge pair and stand up for what we want, our current system simply isn't working and those handing out contracts or deals for favours should be held accountable, Rishi doesn't live in the real world.

Honestly it won't matter which way I vote (I have voted for both Labour and Conservative in the past because I don't blindly follow one or the other), my area will still be Conservative. Even in 1997 it was Conservative. But I'm pleased to see that he's saying something instead of squirming and trying to avoid the issue.

@LozengeShaped

Eep definitely not! Well, I suppose I have publicised what he said but as I stated in my post, I don’t think he‘a actually defined anything. He’s just made a useless statement aimed at pulling votes from people who only care about words and not actions 🤷🏼‍♀️

I didn’t want to include my personal opinion in the post as I was genuinely interested to hear what others thought, but I am disgusted by this government and there’s nothing they could do to get my vote.

They don’t give a shit about women, our rights or our safety.

Just because they “know what we are” doesn’t make them respect us.

If they pick up on this thread, then I do also hope that 😂

For once I think we get to vote with our hearts and vote for who we believe in (if there are any at all that we CAN vote for - Labour/ green / lib dem being off the list. Possible an independent? There's no way the Tories will get in this time. Their support has collapsed in the North. Even if they edged ahead of the rest, its unlikely they will have enough votes to form a government, and after the last coalition, no-one will want to team up with them. Therefore there's likely to be a left wing coalition, hopefully with many concessions on the most contentious issues! So actually spreading out the vote might be a winner!

So far they are the best on offer, that's not to mean I wouldn't choose another party if I could I just don't see a better option right now.

Sadly never say never. We were a hugely strong labour safe seat... And then brexit happened and at the last GE Boris was promising to get it done and sorted and as a strong leave town (old fishermen) we got our first (hopefully last. They are known throughout the town as useless and never seen unless a tory minister or cameras are here) tory mp since the 2nd world war.

I too am politically homeless but will never ever ever ever vote tory as a 24/7 unpaid carer from a forgotten, struggling, end of the line northern town.

I'm afraid that, as a scientist, anyone saying 'a woman is a woman and a man is a man' is not nearly enough detail for me!

No I will not be voting Tory, but I never have done and not going to change now.