Page 24 | A woman is a woman

EmotionSickness · 2023-10-06T06:29:26+00:00

For those who have been following the Tory conference and general themes of their speeches… How do you feel about Sunak’s speech? I know there has been a lot of discussion on here from those who didn’t want to vote for a party that didn’t know the definition of a woman. Rishi has stated clearly that “a woman is a woman and a man is a man.” While I’d argue that still isn’t a definition, per se, he is appeasing this way of thinking. So I’m just wondering. Is this enough for you to vote Tory at the next election?

ArabellaScott · 08/10/2023 14:47

HettyWainty · 08/10/2023 14:38

Nope.

But excellent aggression and implication that you're being silenced or people want you to STFU when that was never said.

All of my posts have said TW shouldn't be in women's spaces. End of.

But i can care about that and also not believe for a second that the Tories really care about women. And also, look at the whole rather than individuals and see that more women are suffering under a Tory Government as NHS workers, rape, CSA or DV victims, working Mums, single parent Mums, carers who are usually women, minimum wage earners and UC claimants who are usually women.

Nobody said you STFU, just that maybe, maybe you shouldn't attempt to influence people's voting using an emotive example of something that happened to you when millions of other women are suffering in many different ways under a Tory Government and shouldn't be made to feel like they're failing as a feminist or a woman for not giving priority to the 'trans issue' and vote for a party that will effect more women directly on a day to day basis and literal 'life or death situations' or for a second be obtuse enough to believe that the Tories give a shit anyway.

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I could not give the slightest fuck who anyone votes for. I hope that's clear.

I find it upsetting to talk about that experience, but I also find it upsetting to have people claim that all women are perfectly bloody happy sharing loos with a man if he 'thinks he's a woman'. I'm not. That's why I spoke up.

To suggest that I am trying to use that experience to influence other people's voting is utterly bizarre, as well as hurtful. How on earth would you think that my recounting a sexual assault is going to encourage people to vote Tory?! Or any other party? Good god.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/10/2023 14:48

I don’t suppose that many of the women on here subjected to abuse were assaulted by TW, though.

It's not relevant to whether I am intimidated by random men in my female spaces, I don't subscribe to the idea that these males are any less risk to women, or that they aren't violating my boundaries.

MankyMinge · 08/10/2023 14:49

MrsSkylerWhite · 08/10/2023 14:44

Ereshkigalangcleg · Today 14:32

As I know only too well from personal experience.

Yes, so do I and I imagine many of the women on this thread.

Sadly, you’re probably right. It’s not a competition, though. I don’t suppose that many of the women on here subjected to abuse were assaulted by TW, though. Most would be by relatives, I imagine.

Statistically that's true it's more likely to be relatives. But That doesn't mean TW are safer than any other males. TW are statistically not that common, so very few women will have been assaulted by someone trans or NB.

I don't see any evidence to suggest TW are statistically more dangerous than men but neither is there any evidence to suggest they are or would be was dangerous than men. Why would they be a lower risk of offending? They are genetically men, they have the personalities attitudes and privileges of men, the muscular strength and hormonal profiles of men. They are just like other men except they wear ladies clothes or have had surgery.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/10/2023 14:49

My partner is lovely. AFAIK he hasn't assaulted anyone, so he can use female spaces, right?

Sueveneers · 08/10/2023 14:51

MankyMinge · 08/10/2023 14:43

It's not ideal that TW don't feel safe in the men's but a TW who gets aggro from a man in the men's has a bigger chance of defending himself in a fight than a woman would against a TW.

I think cubicle loos are best for all. Let's not have ladies or men's just unisex individual loos.

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Unisex spaces harm women. Women need these spaces where they can congregate safely. So many assaults in unisex spaces proves they most definitely are not the answer.

MankyMinge · 08/10/2023 14:51

Sorry that is meant to mean less dangerous than men not was dangerous

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/10/2023 14:52

find it upsetting to talk about that experience, but I also find it upsetting to have people claim that all women are perfectly bloody happy sharing loos with a man if he 'thinks he's a woman'.

People who claim that are either clueless or they are deliberately pushing an agenda. It isn't true. Women don't want male people in female spaces, unless they have surgery to invert their penis. And many not even then.

Sueveneers · 08/10/2023 14:53

MankyMinge · 08/10/2023 14:49

Statistically that's true it's more likely to be relatives. But That doesn't mean TW are safer than any other males. TW are statistically not that common, so very few women will have been assaulted by someone trans or NB.

I don't see any evidence to suggest TW are statistically more dangerous than men but neither is there any evidence to suggest they are or would be was dangerous than men. Why would they be a lower risk of offending? They are genetically men, they have the personalities attitudes and privileges of men, the muscular strength and hormonal profiles of men. They are just like other men except they wear ladies clothes or have had surgery.

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I don't see any evidence to suggest TW are statistically more dangerous than men

They are per capita. Statistically, they are more dangerous than so-called 'cis' men. https://fairplayforwomen.com/criminality/

Study suggests that transwomen exhibit a male pattern of criminality • Fair Play For Women

When looking at ANY CRIMES committed by all trans people there is a slightly higher risk of crime compared to the general population.

https://fairplayforwomen.com/criminality

MankyMinge · 08/10/2023 14:54

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/10/2023 14:52

find it upsetting to talk about that experience, but I also find it upsetting to have people claim that all women are perfectly bloody happy sharing loos with a man if he 'thinks he's a woman'.

People who claim that are either clueless or they are deliberately pushing an agenda. It isn't true. Women don't want male people in female spaces, unless they have surgery to invert their penis. And many not even then.

I wouldn't want them even if they had been through genital surgery. Not all sexual assaults are rape, just because he can't penetrate doesn't mean he can assault.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/10/2023 14:55

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MankyMinge · 08/10/2023 14:55

can't assault I mean!

MrsSkylerWhite · 08/10/2023 14:56

“Why would they be a lower risk of offending? They are genetically men, they have the personalities attitudes and privileges of men, the muscular strength and hormonal profiles of men”

Because they believe that they are women! Why would someone who really believes they are a woman want to hurt you, another woman?

You know a man can’t be a woman, I know a man can’t be a woman, but, forgive me for repeating myself, I really believe the vast majority of TW really believe they are. I just can’t get my head around a woman automatically feeling fearful of someone who in all probability just desperately wants to be like them.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/10/2023 14:56

I wouldn't want them even if they had been through genital surgery.

Me neither. I will never see any of them as women and they don't belong in women's spaces, which are intended for women to have privacy, dignity and some sense of security.

Sueveneers · 08/10/2023 14:57

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Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/10/2023 14:57

Because they believe that they are women! Why would someone who really believes they are a woman want to hurt you, another woman?

How do you know that they "believe that they are women"? Because they say so?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/10/2023 14:59

Where do you think all the transvestic fetishists have gone, @MrsSkylerWhite?

BIossomtoes · 08/10/2023 15:00

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Another of your famous non evidence based assertions. Is there no end to them?

MankyMinge · 08/10/2023 15:00

Having gender dysphoria must be hell on earth but it isn't cured by pretending to be what they're not and demanding validation for it. And feeling compassion for them (as we rightly should) does not trump the safety rights of women.

So someone is misgendered or told they can't lose the womens' loos? They are not harmed they are just disappointed or feel slighted.

A woman is assaulted ? She may well suffer debilitating after effects including an STD, or an unplanned pregnancy on top of trauma. There is no comparison.

MrsSkylerWhite · 08/10/2023 15:00

**
I don't actually think that describes the experience of a significant proportion of these males. I think you are very naive, as I said.

Oh, I’m many things Ereshgkigalangcleg. Unfortunately, I don’t think naive is one of them. Might be rather nice.

ducking out for now. Stomach rumbling, this very interesting and informative thread has taken my attention for way too long 😁

MargotBamborough · 08/10/2023 15:01

MrsSkylerWhite · 08/10/2023 14:56

“Why would they be a lower risk of offending? They are genetically men, they have the personalities attitudes and privileges of men, the muscular strength and hormonal profiles of men”

Because they believe that they are women! Why would someone who really believes they are a woman want to hurt you, another woman?

You know a man can’t be a woman, I know a man can’t be a woman, but, forgive me for repeating myself, I really believe the vast majority of TW really believe they are. I just can’t get my head around a woman automatically feeling fearful of someone who in all probability just desperately wants to be like them.

In that case, can we assume that Karen White, Isla Bryson, Barbie Kardashian and Katie Dolatowski don't actually believe that they are women? That they just pretend to believe they are women so they can enter women's spaces under false pretences so they can assault more women?

Sueveneers · 08/10/2023 15:01

BIossomtoes · 08/10/2023 15:00

Another of your famous non evidence based assertions. Is there no end to them?

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Common sense. Although I know it's not common in some quarters.

HettyWainty · 08/10/2023 15:01

ArabellaScott · 08/10/2023 14:47

I could not give the slightest fuck who anyone votes for. I hope that's clear.

I find it upsetting to talk about that experience, but I also find it upsetting to have people claim that all women are perfectly bloody happy sharing loos with a man if he 'thinks he's a woman'. I'm not. That's why I spoke up.

To suggest that I am trying to use that experience to influence other people's voting is utterly bizarre, as well as hurtful. How on earth would you think that my recounting a sexual assault is going to encourage people to vote Tory?! Or any other party? Good god.

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The thread is about whether or not Rishi Sunak a woman is a woman is enough to make MNetters vote Tory, it's in the OP.

That's what the thread is about.

I am genuinely sorry that I made you feel invalidated. It probably doesn't matter what I say but I am sorry.

Things get so mixed up on threads that many people lose sight on what the original point was and veer off.

Which happened here as it veered off into discussions about TW and some people making it about being GC and the risks that TW pose which I agree are important. And posters saying a Tory vote was the only feminist vote. Disregarding all the other things that are important to women and often, more as it effects them day to day. And other posters disregarding women's concerns about TW using female spaces which I don't agree should ever happen.

But I see so immediate damage done to women as a class by Tory policies that have nothing to do with TW and so no, Rishi saying 'a woman is a woman' isn't enough for me to vote Tory.

Again, I apologise.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 08/10/2023 15:02

I think the problem is that we are now waaay beyond a very small number of gender dysphoric men which women tolerated in some of our spaces partly out of pity & because women are socialised to be kind & partly because those men who would say they were transexuals knew very well they weren’t women.

Now there’s absolutely no requirement for a TW to present as female. We’re much more aware now of what is described as Rapid onset prison dysphoria where men convincted of sexual assault suddenly find their inner women. Plus Are we allowed to mention Ray Blanchard or does that get us deleted?

MankyMinge · 08/10/2023 15:04

No I wouldn't vote for the Tories in spite of what Sunak said. I would not vote for any of the three main parties.

ArabellaScott · 08/10/2023 15:05

HettyWainty · 08/10/2023 15:01

The thread is about whether or not Rishi Sunak a woman is a woman is enough to make MNetters vote Tory, it's in the OP.

That's what the thread is about.

I am genuinely sorry that I made you feel invalidated. It probably doesn't matter what I say but I am sorry.

Things get so mixed up on threads that many people lose sight on what the original point was and veer off.

Which happened here as it veered off into discussions about TW and some people making it about being GC and the risks that TW pose which I agree are important. And posters saying a Tory vote was the only feminist vote. Disregarding all the other things that are important to women and often, more as it effects them day to day. And other posters disregarding women's concerns about TW using female spaces which I don't agree should ever happen.

But I see so immediate damage done to women as a class by Tory policies that have nothing to do with TW and so no, Rishi saying 'a woman is a woman' isn't enough for me to vote Tory.

Again, I apologise.

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Thank you, Hetty. I do appreciate it. I wasn't making any kind of point about voting, just sharing my experience because that was what was being discussed at the time.

I agree about Rishi Sunak throwing in an easy phrase because he knows it'll get support.

There's not a fucker out there who genuinely cares about women's rights, as far as I can see. I'm still politically homeless.