Page 21 | A woman is a woman

EmotionSickness · 2023-10-06T06:29:26+00:00

For those who have been following the Tory conference and general themes of their speeches… How do you feel about Sunak’s speech? I know there has been a lot of discussion on here from those who didn’t want to vote for a party that didn’t know the definition of a woman. Rishi has stated clearly that “a woman is a woman and a man is a man.” While I’d argue that still isn’t a definition, per se, he is appeasing this way of thinking. So I’m just wondering. Is this enough for you to vote Tory at the next election?

EasternStandard · 08/10/2023 13:51

Theeyeballsinthesky · 08/10/2023 13:49

You wouldn’t be afraid walking into the ladies and seeing a 6ft bloke in there?

aye right

well you do you but I’d be bloody scared and you don’t get to consent on my behalf

a 6ft bloke can fuck off to the men’s where he belongs

Yeh I don’t consent either.

Catusrusty · 08/10/2023 13:52

MrsSkylerWhite · 08/10/2023 12:17

Sueveneers

Its far, far more than that. It's not about 'gender', it's about sex. Its about men in women and girls restrooms, change rooms, taking their sports spots. If you you don't see how very serious this is, you're not paying attention”

Shall ask again, how many trans women are there in the UK?

Aged nearly 60, I’ve seen 3 in my whole life. Walking along the street/waiting on a train platform and working in The Range (I’ve possibly seen more without knowing but let’s be honest, most transwomen are probably pretty obvious if you take more than a passing glance, the 3 I’ve seen were).

Never encountered a transwoman in any of the places you mention. Wouldn’t bother me if I did, because they all have cubicles and I imagine those people would just be getting on with their lives, trying on clothes/swimming, whatever, like me.

There are far, far more pressing economic, housing, transport, education, disability and health issues negatively affecting millions of people, many single women parents, every single day. Maybe you’ve not been paying attention because you’re fixated on this one issue that most people don’t much think/care about?

Sunak probably never gave it a moment’s thought until he the script he was given, that was written to try to garner a few more, desperate votes after Braverman took care of the racist, homophobic and misogynistic constituent in her speech. Hunt targeted the sick and disabled last week so it was just the transphobic electorate left to address.

Nothing could induce me to vote for these vile people. Shame on anyone who does. I’m terrified to think of the state of our nation in 5 years if they get in again. Not us, personally, we’ll be fine, probably prosper in fact. Millions will be ground into the dirt though.

Anyone voting purely on this pretty minor, over-emotive issue will have a lot to answer for and will probably live to regret it as they look around and see what they’ve contributed to. Once the election is done and dusted, do they really believe that a Conservative government would care about it one iota?

What a bunch of tosh. Women care a lot about the erasure of their identity.

And it's disgusting to try and sweep their concerns under the carpet.

There are soooooo many examples of women being damaged by transwoman, no one believes the cool girl rhetoric that they arent hurting women any more. That women are being hysterical for not wanting men in their spaces. Even the briefest of research will show incident after incident. Thank God so many women on Mumsnet worked to publicise their abuses. From male swimmers exposing their genitals to women, to men in rape crisis centres, to men raping women in women's prison. To a woman being raped on a hospital ward and the NHS denying it was rape for TWO YEARS, because they said there were no men on the ward. Except the one with a penis that fucked a vulnerable hospital bound woman without her consent.

Perhaps you should look the mothers of the children that Katie Dolatowski abused in the eye and tell them that they really need not be concerned about transwomen.

Who gives a damn if you've only met three? That's completely irrelevant anecedata.

And people can say what want about the Conservatives casting about for votes, but it is ages since Rishi. Sunak first stated that women are adult human females. Labour are the ones jumping on the bandwagon after years of being complicit in erasing women. No matter what colour your particular politics are, it's clear that Labour have been extremely weak protecting women. I imagine if they were in government, self ID wouldn't be far behind.

MrsSkylerWhite · 08/10/2023 13:53

Ereshkigalangcleg · Today 13:34

Pretty much all of those I’ve used in cities and larger towns across the country over the years have been

“Good for you. Not my experience “

Good for you, it is mine.
This could go back and forth forever 😁

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MankyMinge · 08/10/2023 13:53

I'm not a fan of the Tories or any political party but even a broken clock is right twice a day. He is speaking truth, good for him.

BIossomtoes · 08/10/2023 13:53

Theeyeballsinthesky · 08/10/2023 13:49

You wouldn’t be afraid walking into the ladies and seeing a 6ft bloke in there?

aye right

well you do you but I’d be bloody scared and you don’t get to consent on my behalf

a 6ft bloke can fuck off to the men’s where he belongs

Why would I be scared? It’s not as if I don’t see men in every other context every day. I don’t spend my life being terrified.

EasternStandard · 08/10/2023 13:53

The posters who want mixed sex can do that I’ll take single sex with the other women who feel the same

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/10/2023 13:55

Yes you've already said it's your experience. Your anecdata that I should be ok with mixed sex toilets because the French are is irrelevant to me, because it doesn't reflect my own.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 08/10/2023 13:55

in the last 12 months I’ve been to Paris, Brussels, Dublin, Lisbon & Porto - all the toilets were single sex except if it was a single toilet fully contained in a small cafe or resturant

MankyMinge · 08/10/2023 13:55

BIossomtoes · 08/10/2023 13:53

Why would I be scared? It’s not as if I don’t see men in every other context every day. I don’t spend my life being terrified.

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Neither do I but I still wouldn't want a man in there!

Realistically there is no reason why a transwoman cannot use the mens.

BIossomtoes · 08/10/2023 13:56

I imagine if they were in government, self ID wouldn't be far behind.

You mean like Theresa May’s attempt?

Sueveneers · 08/10/2023 13:56

OoooohBobMonkhouse · 08/10/2023 13:19

There's a TW where I work who usually dresses really feminine, much more so than me but then occasionally comes in dressed masculine. At over 6ft 2, you can tell it is a man even when dressed feminine but when they come in as normal man-mode and head straight for the women's toilets, it is strange and unnerving. It's a bloke in our space, peeing like an horse in the next cubicle.

I cant explain it. I cant explain how silenced I feel and how I get into trouble if I dare say anything.

See this is a clear example of it not being actual 'Gender Dysphoria' but them simply being a cross-dresser and taking the piss. He is getting off on making women feel uncomfortable. The fact you don't able to say anything shows the absolute power this 'tiny minority' wields, and the ease which they hold that all encompassing power. It's a Mens Rights Movement.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/10/2023 13:56

In the U.K. a majority of women (and men I think) prefer single sex female only toilets and changing rooms, according to polling. It doesn't matter what other countries do.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/10/2023 13:57

Obviously the men prefer male only!

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/10/2023 13:57

See this is a clear example of it not being actual 'Gender Dysphoria' but them simply being a cross-dresser and taking the piss. He is getting off on making women feel uncomfortable. The fact you don't able to say anything shows the absolute power this 'tiny minority' wields, and the ease which they hold that all encompassing power. It's a Mens Rights Movement.

This.

Sueveneers · 08/10/2023 13:58

QuizzlyBear · 08/10/2023 13:21

No, he's just jumping on the right-wing anti-trans bandwagon to try to claw back some votes from people frothing at the mouth over a fraction of a percentage of the population.

90% of us are left wing feminists. So please stop this lie that it's right wing and that it's 'anti-trans'. Unless you are admitting that womens rights are now 'anti-trans', and pro-trans is anti-women. As we all know.

HettyWainty · 08/10/2023 14:00

Sueveneers · 08/10/2023 13:34

The ladies are where women escape to. To escape a stalker, a bad date, to speak to a friend. They are literally life-saving for some women. It's far more than a'room with cubicles'.

Women make up 50% of the population and participate in the economy. You don't think policies that exclude women won't affect the economy? Or health? Already there are women risking UTIs by not taking fluids all day to avoid the toilet. You're clearly not paying attention at all. Womens basic human rights and dignity isn't a 'minor' or 'over-emotive' issue. Shame on you for suggesting that.

so it was just the transphobic electorate left to address.

Feminists fighting for our survival and our human rights is not 'transphobic'. Unless you are actually admitting that being pro-trans = anti-women.

Show quote history

That's not what they're saying.

I was a MN 'Spartacus' and just looked it up and it was 6.5 years ago.

I was just as concerned as most other Spartacuses (if that's even the plural) and still am. But I like many, was concerned we were going to be over-run by TW taking womens jobs, invading all spaces, altering the fabric of society and effecting all of our daily lives.

Like that poster, I've encountered 3 TW in my daily life in the last 6.5 years. One at a conference (it was GrrlAlex if anyone remembers all those threads), one in Sainsburys who was just shopping and one serving behind a bar.

TW are not women and should not be in female only spaces. End of. I do care very much. But I haven't encountered it and speaking to friends, none of them have either. That's not minimising the experience of women who have or dismissing but just saying it doesn't seem to be that common.

But in the 6.5 years since Spartacus I've personally known dozens of women adversely effected by Tory government policies and know from the statistics that literally millions are effected adversely every single day.

And even without Rishi pretending to give a shit, I can already see the tide is turning with regards to 'trans' issues. In certain sport for example. It's already going in the right direction (for my opinions anyway, I'm sure some others would think differently).

Edit - I replied to the wrong post. I was wanting to reply to the poster who'd said they barely encountered TW who was then critiscised by another for saying so.

ArabellaScott · 08/10/2023 14:01

What about those of us who have been sexually assaulted by a transwoman? In a ladies' toilet?

That's my experience. If we're all sharing. I was seventeen.

MrsSkylerWhite · 08/10/2023 14:03

**
And what are you doing about these issues? Anything? Or are you just here to berate women with different priorities”

Oh, stop it @ArabellaScott . I’m here to participate as is everyone. Hardly berating people. I’m trying to understand why some women are automatically frightened and intimidated by a transwoman, be they 6ft or otherwise, who is not interacting with them in any way. I was abused by a man and a teenaged boy as a child and teenager. I imagine I would certainly feel intimidated by a man in male clothing who walked into a woman’s loo. I’d tell him to leave, too. I wouldn’t be intimidated by a transwoman and I would like to understand why someone else is.

Is that alright with you?

ArabellaScott · 08/10/2023 14:05

I would certainly feel intimidated by a man in male clothing who walked into a woman’s loo. I’d tell him to leave, too. I wouldn’t be intimidated by a transwoman and I would like to understand why someone else is.

See my answer above.

I'm curious - why would a man wearing a skirt be less intimidating than any other man?

Sueveneers · 08/10/2023 14:06

BIossomtoes · 08/10/2023 13:46

More bollocks. I’m a woman and I wouldn’t be afraid. Nor do I think loos are “sacred”.

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Bollocks back to you. You might be a cool girl and say 'I'm not afraid of being with a male stranger alone in an intimate enclosed space' but 99.99999% of women would. And they are sacred spaces a place a woman can flee to as a woman-only space.

ilovesooty · 08/10/2023 14:07

cool girl rhetoric

I think that's pretty dismissive of a viewpoint that doesn't accord with yours

Theeyeballsinthesky · 08/10/2023 14:08

I’m genuinely baffled as to why a bloke popping on a skirt rather than a pair of trousers & going into the ladies would be less scary

they’re still a bloke

BIossomtoes · 08/10/2023 14:10

Sueveneers · 08/10/2023 14:06

Bollocks back to you. You might be a cool girl and say 'I'm not afraid of being with a male stranger alone in an intimate enclosed space' but 99.99999% of women would. And they are sacred spaces a place a woman can flee to as a woman-only space.

Show quote history

Oh here we go. “Cool girl” indeed. You have no evidence that 99. recurring a million times % of women would be afraid. Sacred spaces to flee to? Try finding one at all in most towns.

MrsSkylerWhite · 08/10/2023 14:15

**
ArabellaScott

I'm curious - why would a man wearing a skirt be less intimidating than any other man?

Because he believes he’s a woman. Isn’t that the whole point? Why would I feel threatened by someone who believes they’re a woman?

Seeing your update, that’s horrible and I’m very sorry that that happened to you. I understand sexual assault and rape. I do believe though that the majority of the (tiny) number of people who describe themselves as trans women do believe that they are women and just want to get on with their lives in peace.

To me, the other issues I’ve listed are far more important to far more people and to overlook those and try to elect this terrible, damaging Government again based on one issue that in daily life affects very few people feels very misguided, even naive. They don’t care about your fears.

Sueveneers · 08/10/2023 14:16

MrsSkylerWhite · 08/10/2023 14:03

**
And what are you doing about these issues? Anything? Or are you just here to berate women with different priorities”

Oh, stop it @ArabellaScott . I’m here to participate as is everyone. Hardly berating people. I’m trying to understand why some women are automatically frightened and intimidated by a transwoman, be they 6ft or otherwise, who is not interacting with them in any way. I was abused by a man and a teenaged boy as a child and teenager. I imagine I would certainly feel intimidated by a man in male clothing who walked into a woman’s loo. I’d tell him to leave, too. I wouldn’t be intimidated by a transwoman and I would like to understand why someone else is.

Is that alright with you?

But transwomen are men! And most retain their penis and testicles. So how can you say you'd be intimidated by a man but not a transwoman, when they are the exact same thing?

You're saying; 'I'm fine with a man in my space if he's wearing a dress, but if he's wearing a suit and tie, I'm not'.

What's the difference? Make it make sense.