Page 20 | A woman is a woman

EmotionSickness · 2023-10-06T06:29:26+00:00

For those who have been following the Tory conference and general themes of their speeches… How do you feel about Sunak’s speech? I know there has been a lot of discussion on here from those who didn’t want to vote for a party that didn’t know the definition of a woman. Rishi has stated clearly that “a woman is a woman and a man is a man.” While I’d argue that still isn’t a definition, per se, he is appeasing this way of thinking. So I’m just wondering. Is this enough for you to vote Tory at the next election?

EasternStandard · 08/10/2023 13:32

QuizzlyBear · 08/10/2023 13:21

No, he's just jumping on the right-wing anti-trans bandwagon to try to claw back some votes from people frothing at the mouth over a fraction of a percentage of the population.

And why should TRAs and supporters ‘froth at the mouth’ to get what they want when women say no?

MrsSkylerWhite · 08/10/2023 13:33

Ereshkigalangcleg
I've travelled in France and never used a unisex loo there, so clearly they aren't all mixed sex

Pretty much all of those I’ve used in cities and larger towns across the country over the years have been
🤷‍♀️

Sueveneers · 08/10/2023 13:34

MrsSkylerWhite · 08/10/2023 12:17

Sueveneers

Its far, far more than that. It's not about 'gender', it's about sex. Its about men in women and girls restrooms, change rooms, taking their sports spots. If you you don't see how very serious this is, you're not paying attention”

Shall ask again, how many trans women are there in the UK?

Aged nearly 60, I’ve seen 3 in my whole life. Walking along the street/waiting on a train platform and working in The Range (I’ve possibly seen more without knowing but let’s be honest, most transwomen are probably pretty obvious if you take more than a passing glance, the 3 I’ve seen were).

Never encountered a transwoman in any of the places you mention. Wouldn’t bother me if I did, because they all have cubicles and I imagine those people would just be getting on with their lives, trying on clothes/swimming, whatever, like me.

There are far, far more pressing economic, housing, transport, education, disability and health issues negatively affecting millions of people, many single women parents, every single day. Maybe you’ve not been paying attention because you’re fixated on this one issue that most people don’t much think/care about?

Sunak probably never gave it a moment’s thought until he the script he was given, that was written to try to garner a few more, desperate votes after Braverman took care of the racist, homophobic and misogynistic constituent in her speech. Hunt targeted the sick and disabled last week so it was just the transphobic electorate left to address.

Nothing could induce me to vote for these vile people. Shame on anyone who does. I’m terrified to think of the state of our nation in 5 years if they get in again. Not us, personally, we’ll be fine, probably prosper in fact. Millions will be ground into the dirt though.

Anyone voting purely on this pretty minor, over-emotive issue will have a lot to answer for and will probably live to regret it as they look around and see what they’ve contributed to. Once the election is done and dusted, do they really believe that a Conservative government would care about it one iota?

The ladies are where women escape to. To escape a stalker, a bad date, to speak to a friend. They are literally life-saving for some women. It's far more than a'room with cubicles'.

Women make up 50% of the population and participate in the economy. You don't think policies that exclude women won't affect the economy? Or health? Already there are women risking UTIs by not taking fluids all day to avoid the toilet. You're clearly not paying attention at all. Womens basic human rights and dignity isn't a 'minor' or 'over-emotive' issue. Shame on you for suggesting that.

so it was just the transphobic electorate left to address.

Feminists fighting for our survival and our human rights is not 'transphobic'. Unless you are actually admitting that being pro-trans = anti-women.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/10/2023 13:34

I cant explain it. I cant explain how silenced I feel and how I get into trouble if I dare say anything.

It's oppressive and a violation of women's privacy and dignity, and there are some many male people of all "genders" who enjoy that aspect and the power trip over women. They don't all "just want to pee". That is all.

MargotBamborough · 08/10/2023 13:34

MrsSkylerWhite · 08/10/2023 13:33

Ereshkigalangcleg
I've travelled in France and never used a unisex loo there, so clearly they aren't all mixed sex

Pretty much all of those I’ve used in cities and larger towns across the country over the years have been
🤷‍♀️

I don't believe you.

HettyWainty · 08/10/2023 13:34

OoooohBobMonkhouse · 08/10/2023 13:19

There's a TW where I work who usually dresses really feminine, much more so than me but then occasionally comes in dressed masculine. At over 6ft 2, you can tell it is a man even when dressed feminine but when they come in as normal man-mode and head straight for the women's toilets, it is strange and unnerving. It's a bloke in our space, peeing like an horse in the next cubicle.

I cant explain it. I cant explain how silenced I feel and how I get into trouble if I dare say anything.

And that's shit, truely.

But most women aren't working with a TW or being expected regularly if ever, to share spaces with TW. That doesn't mean they don't think it's shit or not important but it isn't their primary problem or concern.

But most women ARE struggling under a Tory government that doesn't care about them. I know nurses using food banks, full time working Mums already planning how to not put the heating on this winter. Single parent Mums considering sex work because they can't afford to live basically. Mums of disabled DC considering putting them into care because they can't afford to keep them. And the women who see no point in reporting rape.

Most people don't have the privilege to vote on the basis of a single issue that it's extremely unlikely the Tories would give even half a shit about if re-elected.

Most people vote on what is effecting them and people they love directly, day after day. And effecting them greatly as in life or death or thriving or just surviving.

And no I don't think that Labour will lead to a utopia but I'll give them a chance to do better than the mess we're already in.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/10/2023 13:34

Pretty much all of those I’ve used in cities and larger towns across the country over the years have been

Good for you. Not my experience 🤷‍♀️

Sueveneers · 08/10/2023 13:35

Bananasandcorn · 08/10/2023 09:49

Most of those things you mention have NOT been removed by the Trans movement but by spending cuts/austerity.

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That is simply not true. Most if not all are due solely to the introduction of men in our spaces.

EasternStandard · 08/10/2023 13:35

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/10/2023 13:34

I cant explain it. I cant explain how silenced I feel and how I get into trouble if I dare say anything.

It's oppressive and a violation of women's privacy and dignity, and there are some many male people of all "genders" who enjoy that aspect and the power trip over women. They don't all "just want to pee". That is all.

It's oppressive and a violation of women's privacy and dignity

yes and the rest

MargotBamborough · 08/10/2023 13:36

HettyWainty · 08/10/2023 13:34

And that's shit, truely.

But most women aren't working with a TW or being expected regularly if ever, to share spaces with TW. That doesn't mean they don't think it's shit or not important but it isn't their primary problem or concern.

But most women ARE struggling under a Tory government that doesn't care about them. I know nurses using food banks, full time working Mums already planning how to not put the heating on this winter. Single parent Mums considering sex work because they can't afford to live basically. Mums of disabled DC considering putting them into care because they can't afford to keep them. And the women who see no point in reporting rape.

Most people don't have the privilege to vote on the basis of a single issue that it's extremely unlikely the Tories would give even half a shit about if re-elected.

Most people vote on what is effecting them and people they love directly, day after day. And effecting them greatly as in life or death or thriving or just surviving.

And no I don't think that Labour will lead to a utopia but I'll give them a chance to do better than the mess we're already in.

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So why are Labour and the Lib Dems giving some women a reason not to vote for them, rather than focusing all their energy on getting elected so they can fix these problems?

Sueveneers · 08/10/2023 13:37

Bananasandcorn · 08/10/2023 09:59

The reason women have lost many safe spaces is down to spending cuts, my hospital has had to put women in mens wards and vice versa due to not enough staff.

Same with cuts in funding to DV refuge's, which this thread has made me more aware of, its shocking.

We are blaming the wrong people.

Trans in female sport though is totally utterly wrong but thankfully changing.

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Same with cuts in funding to DV refuge's, which this thread has made me more aware of, its shocking.

The cuts to funding to DV refuges are because some won't admit males. So their funding is cut. This is a well-known fact and all over google if you search for it. Those who refuse to admit transwomen lost their funding and hence had to close.

Sueveneers · 08/10/2023 13:38

Woman2023 · 08/10/2023 10:11

"The reason women have lost many safe spaces is down to spending cuts, my hospital has had to put women in mens wards and vice versa due to not enough staff."

Do spending cuts explain all the trans training in hospitals? The rainbow badges and lanyards? The policies which tell nurses that they must assure women in hospital that a ward has only women when they can see a man (who says he's a woman) in the bed opposite?

Exactly. The 'oh it's down to funding cuts not trans issues' is the biggest load of absolute bullshit.

Sueveneers · 08/10/2023 13:39

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/10/2023 10:27

Do spending cuts explain all the trans training in hospitals? The rainbow badges and lanyards?

They seem to have plenty of public money to piss up the wall on these initiatives.

Exactly, for a supposedly cash-strapped sector they are wasting money on absolute garbage.

Sueveneers · 08/10/2023 13:42

MrsSkylerWhite · 08/10/2023 12:51

@ilovesooty

“It doesn't make those of us who think this TRAs or TRA allies either.”

Quite. I completely agree that a woman is a woman, a man is a man and you can’t just change sex. This time, though, there are far more important problems to be dealt with.

There is always 'far more important issues' though, isn't there? Just when do womens human rights get a look in? There will never, ever, ever be a time when there aren't 'far more important issues'. In the mean time, women leave the workforce and self-exclude from participating in society.

BIossomtoes · 08/10/2023 13:42

Sueveneers · 08/10/2023 13:37

Same with cuts in funding to DV refuge's, which this thread has made me more aware of, its shocking.

The cuts to funding to DV refuges are because some won't admit males. So their funding is cut. This is a well-known fact and all over google if you search for it. Those who refuse to admit transwomen lost their funding and hence had to close.

Show quote history

You might want to ask yourself who funds them and allows this to happen. Oh yes, it’s the Tory government.

Sueveneers · 08/10/2023 13:43

MrsSkylerWhite · 08/10/2023 13:01

Intimidating in what way? What was he doing that made you feel threatened?

Recently returned from a trip to Germany, Holland and Belgium where most of the loos were unisex (as they’ve been in France for decades). Can honestly say I’ve never given it much thought. Certainly never felt intimidated.

Being desensitised to women losing their safe single single sex spaces isn't a benefit. And any woman would be afraid of seeing a 6 foot man in womens sacred safe single sex spaces. Just him being there is threatening.

ArabellaScott · 08/10/2023 13:46

MrsSkylerWhite · 08/10/2023 12:17

Sueveneers

Its far, far more than that. It's not about 'gender', it's about sex. Its about men in women and girls restrooms, change rooms, taking their sports spots. If you you don't see how very serious this is, you're not paying attention”

Shall ask again, how many trans women are there in the UK?

Aged nearly 60, I’ve seen 3 in my whole life. Walking along the street/waiting on a train platform and working in The Range (I’ve possibly seen more without knowing but let’s be honest, most transwomen are probably pretty obvious if you take more than a passing glance, the 3 I’ve seen were).

Never encountered a transwoman in any of the places you mention. Wouldn’t bother me if I did, because they all have cubicles and I imagine those people would just be getting on with their lives, trying on clothes/swimming, whatever, like me.

There are far, far more pressing economic, housing, transport, education, disability and health issues negatively affecting millions of people, many single women parents, every single day. Maybe you’ve not been paying attention because you’re fixated on this one issue that most people don’t much think/care about?

Sunak probably never gave it a moment’s thought until he the script he was given, that was written to try to garner a few more, desperate votes after Braverman took care of the racist, homophobic and misogynistic constituent in her speech. Hunt targeted the sick and disabled last week so it was just the transphobic electorate left to address.

Nothing could induce me to vote for these vile people. Shame on anyone who does. I’m terrified to think of the state of our nation in 5 years if they get in again. Not us, personally, we’ll be fine, probably prosper in fact. Millions will be ground into the dirt though.

Anyone voting purely on this pretty minor, over-emotive issue will have a lot to answer for and will probably live to regret it as they look around and see what they’ve contributed to. Once the election is done and dusted, do they really believe that a Conservative government would care about it one iota?

There are far, far more pressing economic, housing, transport, education, disability and health issues negatively affecting millions of people

And what are you doing about these issues? Anything? Or are you just here to berate women with different priorities?

BIossomtoes · 08/10/2023 13:46

Sueveneers · 08/10/2023 13:43

Being desensitised to women losing their safe single single sex spaces isn't a benefit. And any woman would be afraid of seeing a 6 foot man in womens sacred safe single sex spaces. Just him being there is threatening.

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More bollocks. I’m a woman and I wouldn’t be afraid. Nor do I think loos are “sacred”.

PomRuns · 08/10/2023 13:48

I’ve already said why. I was alone, it was late and quiet.

It’s completely different to unisex loos in a workplace which are generally in a busy building with people you know around.

I really agree with the pp who described woman only loos places as a sanctuary.

BIossomtoes · 08/10/2023 13:48

There are far, far more pressing economic, housing, transport, education, disability and health issues negatively affecting millions of people

And what are you doing about these issues? Anything? Or are you just here to berate women with different priorities?

Not voting Tory.

ArabellaScott · 08/10/2023 13:48

Sueveneers · 08/10/2023 13:42

There is always 'far more important issues' though, isn't there? Just when do womens human rights get a look in? There will never, ever, ever be a time when there aren't 'far more important issues'. In the mean time, women leave the workforce and self-exclude from participating in society.

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And some people spend more time lecturing women in what issues they ought to care about than they seem to actually doing anything about those issues.

I don't go seek out and hector people who are fundraising for donkey sanctuaries, or those who are organising around the secularisation of education, or Jehovah's Witnesses, and tell them they ought to be focussing on other things.

Why is it people feel the need to tell women they're doing it wrong, every time?

Theeyeballsinthesky · 08/10/2023 13:49

You wouldn’t be afraid walking into the ladies and seeing a 6ft bloke in there?

aye right

well you do you but I’d be bloody scared and you don’t get to consent on my behalf

a 6ft bloke can fuck off to the men’s where he belongs

MrsSkylerWhite · 08/10/2023 13:50

Sueveneers

Feminists fighting for our survival and our human rights is not 'transphobic'. Unless you are actually admitting that being pro-trans = anti-women.”

Survival? Honestly, It’s language like that that really doesn’t help your cause.

Nope, not pro-trans or anti-women. Just an average, late middle-aged woman who’s lived her life completely unaffected by this issue who is far more concerned about homelessness, employment rights and fair wages for everyone, education (or appalling lack of), healthcare, transport, the list could go on. This, to me and millions of others, is no reason to vote for this stinking cesspit of a Government which gives not a damn about your issue until election time comes a-calling. They’re just scraping the bottom of the barrel for those last few, desperate, misguided (perhaps gullible?) voters, whose concerns will rocket straight back down to the bottom of the list should they be successful.

@MargotBamborough

Pretty much all of those I’ve used in cities and larger towns across the country over the years have been
🤷‍♀️

“I don't believe you”

What a weird statement! Why on earth would you not believe me? When were you last in Munich, Amsterdam, Antwerp and Brussels? I was, a few weeks ago. The majority of facilities were unisex. You’re most welcome to retrace my steps if you’d like to check it out yourself 🤣

Sueveneers · 08/10/2023 13:51

HettyWainty · 08/10/2023 13:17

Exactly.

And the Tories don't care about women. Or men particularly unless they're rich ones.

They don't care about the NHS and the women that are the overwhelming majority of workers, usually the least paid ones.

They don't care about working Mums who are disadvantaged by childcare costs. Or single parents who are overwhelmingly women.

They don't care about carers, the overwhelming amount of whom are women.

They don't care about a CSA system where it's far too easy for men to opt out of paying for their children.

I don't think men who identify as women are women or should be in female prisons.

I'm not going to vote Tory to stick it to TRAs and think I'm a feminist because of it.

Anyone who thinks the Tories suddenly give a shit about the issue are fools. They don't. They're desperate and know that putting this out there will win votes by misguided GC women who think they care. They really don't, and that would be clear the second they won another GC. It'll go to beyond the bottom of the list.

It's a political move and potential vote-winner that's all. People have really short memories since they've already forgotten the "350 million we send the EU could be spent on the NHS" idea which was a lie on many levels but also an easy vote winner.

Funnily enough, the NHS seems to be in a shittier position than ever before. Which Brexit has directly CONTRIBUTED to.

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Many of us are under no illusion that the conservatives care about women. Don't take us for imbeciles. On this issue though - which affects every single sector of society; health, education, employment, prisons, , womens intimate health care, participation in society, human rights - you name it, there is not one single area of society trans rights vs womens rights doesn't touch - they are right. Many of us like me are left wing/Labour voters and would never vote for conservatives on our deathbed in a last ditch attempt to live. However the fact you admit it's a vote-winner, shows you know that it's not just a minority, and it's not a 'minor issue' as some say it is.

It's not just Brexit, the fact the NHS wastes hundreds upon hundreds of thousands/millions on 'inclusivity' (which basically means excluding women, no matter the issue) means they can't be that bad off if they was millions on absolute sheer garbage.

MargotBamborough · 08/10/2023 13:51

I don't believe you because I live in France and the vast majority of toilets here are not unisex, they are single sex.