A woman is a woman

[EmotionSickness]

For those who have been following the Tory conference and general themes of their speeches…

How do you feel about Sunak’s speech?

I know there has been a lot of discussion on here from those who didn’t want to vote for a party that didn’t know the definition of a woman.

Rishi has stated clearly that “a woman is a woman and a man is a man.” While I’d argue that still isn’t a definition, per se, he is appeasing this way of thinking.

So I’m just wondering. Is this enough for you to vote Tory at the next election?

oh i like Clav, she is exceptionally good at turning people off from the Tories.

I do not think the education system or the healthcare system are safe in the hands of any government made up of people who lack either the intellect to understand that sex is binary and immutable, or the integrity to say it.

I care more about truth than about anything else, and if Labour want my vote they have to repudiate the genderist woo.

If you care about truth, do you think Sunak is a decent, honest man with integrity? Can you evidence that from his political behaviour and parliamentary history? For the past week no one has been able to do this yet.

Why does Sunaks behaviour have any bearing on whether we believe Starmer is capable of doing the right thing by women?

A lot of women on here are not saying that we will vote Tory, what we are saying is that it is unbelievable that there is no party that will be prepared to put their neck on the line and put women's rights and safety above the wishes of trans women and the powerful lobby behind them. Until women's single sex spaces are single sex and exclude ALL males including trans women, women are at risk of harm from males where we should be safe.

So I feel you are missing the point massively. I want to understand why Labour voters think that the Labour Party position ON THIS ISSUE is acceptable?

Because afaik Starmer still includes males in his definition of women and has no real intention to piss off the trans rights lobbyists. He's weak on this issue and that's just not good enough.

Putin must be laughing his socks off. The American President doesn't know what day of the week it is and our lot barely know what a woman is...

Politically homeless.

Used to be an LP member. Left a few years ago over the stance on self ID.

I live in a Conservative stronghold so makes no difference. I'll probably draw a giant penis on my ballot paper instead.

Because Sunak's alleged honesty and integrity, which no one for the past week has been able to evidence, has a bearing on whether the words of his speech have any credibility.

No, I have opinions on this topic but it’s very complex and can’t be reduced to populist shit like this.

no matter what they say, I will never ever vote Tory. Their ethos is I’m alright, if you’re not, it’s your problem. That’s ok for corporations, not governments. Also, Jacob Rees Mogg is a cunt.

Is it complicated really?

No, it is not.

But even if they have no credibility why does that let the Labour Party off the hook on this issue?

This issue may not be a key issue for you but it is for many women who are despairing that Starmer is so under the thumb of lobbyists that he won't take steps to satisfy women who are questioning his position on this issue.

Asking for reassurances that women as a sex class are kept safe in single sex spaces from ALL males shouldn't be too much to ask.

I don't think this should be a party political issue, it is essential that women don't lose the right to be safe because some males are considered to be women and it is essential that some women don't lose the ability to be out in public (religious minorities being the obvious example). Anything less than commitment that the Labour Party does not include any male in its definition of women when it comes to single sex spaces is not good enough for most of us now. The GRC which has created a legal fiction that some males are legally women need overhauling too. At a time that a woman has been raped on a single sex ward of a hospital by a trans woman and at a time that Sunak is making such comments at the Conservative Party Conference it should be very easy for Starmer to reassure women. But he won't. And that is not the fault of Sunak.

Isn't it obvious though that it's easier for the Conservatives to stand up to this nonsense? Letter people are far more likely to be left leaning I should have thought...

I respect the fact that the issue is crucial to you. As I said I don't think it's reflected across the electorate and there are many people who don't think Starmer needs to focus on it either when prioritising issues in a campaign.

People's priorities vary.

I highly recommend the Briefing Room from R4 today for a cold water take on international relations

So why don't you think it should be a priority to keep women safe @ilovesooty aren't you horrified that a vulnerable woman was raped in what should have been a single sex NHS ward by a trans woman?

I find that astonishing.

I think that there are clearly other important issues but safety of women and children underpins every part of our society.

For example I have an autistic teenager daughter, the Labour Party will be better on education BUT they are not committed to remove ties with organisations that seek to trans children. Autistic children are more vulnerable to identifying as trans and autistic teen girls are put on pathways which leads to removing healthy breast tissue at the age of 18, I have first hand experience of a girl in a support group my daughter is part of.

We need an NHS that is better funded and can care for all people, it can't do that when it is unscientific in it's language, this impacts minority groups, and disenfranchises ultimately people who can't for any reason be in the same space as males or receive care from males.

These are just a couple of examples.

I think you will also find that plenty of people outside of mumsnet once they are aware of the issues.

You can try to shut people up by saying Sunak bad, Starmer good, no one cares but that's just doing women and children a massive disservice.

And @ilovesooty you know this is not a position that is limited to women of mumsnet.

You also know that women have been effectively stopped from speaking out on this in public because of institutional capture.

There is no free speech on this subject. I think that you'd be amazed at the number of people who do think women's rights are a key issue in a civilised democracy.

The fact that the left has abandoned women is terrifying.

@lifeturnsonadime that was horrible. Was the rapist charged and prosecuted?

I'm not trying to shut people up. I'm pointing out that many of the electorate prioritise other issues.

And I don't see much done over the past 13 years for the welfare of women and children.

I'll be voting for someone who knows what poverty is and agrees it's the duty of a politician to devise policies to ameliorate it. So no. Not for Rishi and his horrible grasping mates.

I'm not sure, I hope so.

It took a year for the NHS to admit it could have happened they kept denying there was a male on the ward.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/17/hospital-told-police-patient-not-raped-alleged-attacker-transgender/

I think when it comes to voting intention on an important issue you need to look at who is going to improve it.

The fact that the conservative government haven't done much for women in the past 13 years doesn't mean that I think it's right for the Labour Government to make this worse by including males in the definition of women and effectively removing single sex spaces forever more.

I also have genuine concerns on the impact on children on the teaching of gender in schools. Look at Canada and the rest of Northern US for reasons and ways in which that can go wrong.

Wouldn't it be lovely if the Labour government could fix ALL of the failures of the last 13 years AT THE SAME TIME AS protecting women from all males and protecting children from the belief that gender is more important than sex and all the harms that go with that.

This is not impossible, they just don't want to.

You need to be very careful with this. There was a case where someone did the same (although in this case it was a drawing of a penis with “discharge”). The end of said “discharge” landed in a particular box on the ballot paper and it was found to be a vote for that candidate.

@lifeturnsonadime I’m with you on how important it is.
People who appear happy that it’s not important to politicians, I’m not in line with. I would like legislation to happen to change status quo

Don't fall for it people. They are just swinging for anything to get votes its desperate and pathetic.

Immigration, trans, motorist etc...promise anything to win