Cost of living. I'm having a meltdown tonight.

[TwentyTwenty20]

I put my heating on for an hour or so this morning because I forgot to dry my son's school uniform, and my landlord won't let me install a tumble dryer. It cost me an extra £2. I didn't put my heating on until January last year. We lived under the duvet until then. I got my son changed under the covers. I used to just get in the bath and stay there in the evening to keep warm. I'm a lone parent, I take home £2100 a month and get £140 UC, £96 child benefit. My rent is £1000 a month. Council tax £150 with SP discount. Electric, gas, petrol, car insurance, Internet, school uniform, food, life insurance, water bills, £130 on before and after school clubs so I can work, then there's failed MOT which I had to put on a credit card which I'm paying off, tv license, phone bill etc. Then there's life and scraping by so my son can continue his gymnastics hes been doing since he was 2. Council is awful and you can't apply for any of the cost of living stuff unless they have 'identified you'. I've done income and expenditure with a professional and they've said I've pretty much cut back as far as I can. They fine tooth combed my bank statements. How is the amount I make not enough? I have applied for 6 cheaper houses in the last month and none will rent to me. I'm 400 and something on the list for council housing. 10 years ago I was on 18k a year and comfortable and saving.

Will this ever get better? That's a genuine question because I can do all the cutting back I can but if I keep getting knocked back for cheaper housing and higher paid jobs I just don't know how I will go on. It is no life and I don't enjoy getting out of bed in the morning anymore.

I think the bigger issue is actually re-writing the tax code so that most of the loopholes and exemptions are removed. It would also mean getting rid of regressive taxes like council tax.

Then making everyone submit a tax return yearly and getting rid of zero hour contracts. It doesn't mean that casual work doesn't exist as it existed before zero hour contracts were a thing.

@Princessandthepea0 @Thegreatprocrastinator001 Having lived in Copenhagen I always state what a different model looks like but @Princessandthepea0 is correct- it involves in most instances most adults working and full time- even with kids (although they do tend to knock off around 4.30 if in a 9 to 5 type role. I saw very few mums around town in the week with any kids over around 1 in the daytime and very few advertised activities for stay at home parents beyond young babyhood.

The UK has made it such that unless you are quite high earning it doesn't really pay to work full time, especially if you have kids and private rent. Even as a single older person with no kids (I'm married and62 ) I did a quick 'hypothetical) calculation and would only be around £250 a month better off if I worked say 14 hours a week at minimum wage than if I did sod all. Ok that's still £250 a month but I can see why some lower paid people especially with younger kids and without another higher earner in the house get to the point of thinking 'I would rather do my 16 hours etc and get top ups' -

This is the issue. That and we over penalise our higher earners. 100% plus marginals at 100k if you have children. You’re thousands worse off. 70% if you don’t. This in turn means the higher earners are now turning away from extra. They can’t afford to take the bonus or extra day if it tips them over the cliff edge as an example. It could leave them tens of thousands out of pocket. We simply don’t have enough people working at full capacity like they do in other countries. That would need to change.

I'm going to tout Land Value Tax as the fairest form of tax here. Income Tax is arguably theft.

Yes it sounds really complex. I guess Sweden re-built and re-modelled following the 2nd World War? Does anyone know how the Scandinavians do state welfare? I think higher taxation is worth it for a higher standard of living - we work and earn to achieve a higher standard of living but right now that's not working and our standard of living is worsening generally. I earn £42 k so on a higher rate for not much after tax compared with my outgoings. I really feel we've lost our way in this country. We put more energy into war and profiteering from weapons than we do our own domestic issues or even climate change, I feel...

@Thegreatprocrastinator001 it's a really important topic and anyone who is interested in why many other countries appear more 'together' such as Denmark, Sweden, Netherlands needs to understand it is based on higher tax, higher standards, affordable childcare, more social housing to some extent and far more people not getting top ups and working less hours -

I am pretty sure the UK has more social housing as a % of its housing stock than most European countries.
https://www.google.co.jp/imgres?q=percentage%20of%20social%20housing%20european%20countries&imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.researchgate.net%2Fpublication%2F238400007%2Ffigure%2Ffig1%2FAS%3A634629161754625%401528318791238%2FPercentage-of-social-rented-housing-by-European-countries-Source-Italian-Housing.png&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.researchgate.net%2Ffigure%2FPercentage-of-social-rented-housing-by-European-countries-Source-Italian-Housing_fig1_238400007&docid=pvrcm0lmB_A19M&tbnid=xIcDuadVOdpYsM&vet=12ahUKEwjD4Jr0y6mFAxVRm68BHZ-VB2EQM3oECBYQAA..i&w=832&h=515&hcb=2&ved=2ahUKEwjD4Jr0y6mFAxVRm68BHZ-VB2EQM3oECBYQAA
https://www.google.co.jp/imgres?q=percentage%20of%20social%20housing%20european%20countries&imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Flandgeistdotcom.files.wordpress.com%2F2021%2F03%2Feurope-social-housing.png&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Flandgeist.com%2F2021%2F03%2F05%2Fsocial-housing%2F&docid=ACdZUg40g7_V_M&tbnid=cDwVCYd0OQDaQM&vet=12ahUKEwjD4Jr0y6mFAxVRm68BHZ-VB2EQM3oECGkQAA..i&w=1200&h=1080&hcb=2&ved=2ahUKEwjD4Jr0y6mFAxVRm68BHZ-VB2EQM3oECGkQAA

The UK's painful problems with housing affordability appear to be more about strangled supply than anything else (population increase probably has not helped - we are not keeping up with demand).

As someone who has claimed benefits for 15 years so am very familiar with the ins and outs, it absolutely pays to work and there is a massive difference in money WHEN you no longer have nursery costs. I find it baffling when people claim otherwise.

If I didn't work, I'd get £1400 a month in benefits (I rent and have one child). I work full time, bringing home £1650 per month after tax/pension so am not well paid by any stretch. I get £500 per month UC. No childcare costs. That is a difference of £750 a month. Working IS worth it. And the 16 hours thing no longer exists, that was with the old tax credits system and is not relevant to UC.

Okay here's another scenario.. so my partner and I both work full time with me bringing home around £2200 after tax and pension, and him bringing home around £1900, so not huge. We used to be able to save £600 per month but these days we can't do this due to cost of living. We aren't extravagant, haven't been abroad for years, but clothes from charity shops but we do have two teens who cost a fair bit with college train and school bus fares, hobbies etc. I've just found out I'm pregnant and am freaking out due to money. I actually don't know how we could possibly afford the loss of earnings if the pregnancy continued. Even though I'm a key worker my maternity pay is pants - basic statutory - so I don't even think we could pay the bills! Any ideas guys?!

@Beezknees I don't disagree- where it starts to make a lot less difference is if there are no kids on the scene and part time jobs

You may be eligible for Universal credit to help towards childcare costs once you go back to work after having the baby. You would need to put the figures into a benefits calculator. It will also depend on things like whether you pay rent.

Quite honestly, I would not continue a pregnancy in that scenario.

And isn't that sad? That we both earn (slightly) higher than average wages, I'm a professional with two degrees working in public sector for 19 years, a modest mortgage on a 3 bed terrace, a shared car, and we can't afford a child? How has it become like this in a supposedly wealthy country? Thanks for the honestly though Beezknees!

@Thegreatprocrastinator001 that's £4,100 per month. People live on less I'm talking 50 percent less.

You can afford a child you will just need to make some cutbacks. If you have two teens then in a few years they could be earning themselves and you'll only have one dependent child. You may need to consider things like extending your mortgage ( if you have one ) whilst you get through the expensive childcare years and University years but many families have three kids on a lot less.

Well, you already have 2 children so it's more like not being able to afford a third which is pretty normal. A lot of people can't afford 3 children.

I mean the first question is do you actually want another baby? If you do, your teens will soon be earning for themselves so 6-7 years down the line with a kid in primary school you'll be in a different situation. But what do you want rather than what can afford should be the first question.

Ditch the tv licence for a start. We haven't bought one in years and <<whispers>> nothing happens. You get the odd letter addressed to the legal occupier, then nothing. And if someone did turn up on the doorstep, just don't answer the door.

If money wasn't an issue we would all be thrilled. And it's not so much in three years time.. it's the short term I'm worried about. The maternity leave especially. I earn just over 40k so that unfortunate wages that puts you into higher tax but once I'm back at work say part time then we probably could afford it, but how to get through maternity leave?! Go back after three months? Most childcare providers only take babies from 6 months... And Beezknees if you say most people can't afford 3 kids then that's definitely an indication of how much worse things are these days.thanks for the advice guys.. the eldest is 17 but wants to do a gap year, but she could use her child trust fund so I reckon we will have to wait and see. Oh did I forget to mention? I'm 45!! Hence the accident.. who knew a quick lapse in pills due to having no time to get to the GP with a bloody gruelling job would result in pregnancy at my age?! Perhaps I'll start a blog, try to gain traction and earn extra that way!! We will see...

But 40K pa isn't a higher tax bracket. The limit for higher tax is just over 50k, and even then you only pay 40% on the amount which goes over your 50k, not the whole amount.You should be on a basic rate 20% tax, unless you are taxed higher due to other income(s).

If you want to see the pregnancy through, maybe look at shared parental leave if your dh earns less? Childcare should be a shared responsibility, and if you are in public sector they are usually very good at family-friendly policies.

Do you know what, I need to check my payslips! Since they went online with a convoluted way of logging into the system and finding the link to download them I stopped bothering! That actually cheered me up even though it means my plan to cut hours and get below a tax threshold won't work! Maybe I thought I was paying more tax than I am! I'm going to sit down with partner and work it all out. He works for the same service so I think it is a great idea to consider and look into shared paternity.. thanks.

@Thegreatprocrastinator001 I was just about to ask your age as we were in a similar boat, both 42 two kids already, earn around £5500 joint a month and with the CoL and where things are going there is no way we could afford another AND maintain lifestyle / plan for retirement / enjoy the odd holiday. Yes people do it all the time but if the economists are to be believed it’s the middle class who are going to see the worst effects in the next few years. Don’t want to scaremonger and if you want the baby there’s not even a question you’ll make it happen. You seem to value honesty and other perspectives and I would offer that parental stress, financial and relationships, and health can have a huge impact on a child you may think we did it with two already but that was a different world altogether when you were raising them. What about their futures? Can you help them buy their own property etc? GL whatever you decide.

Oh it's a really tricky one isn't it, and I do feel angry that our country has become so economically crippled, especially as you say with the collapse of middle class wealth. In my case our girls have trust funds with enough to give them a start and we could afford it with a hold on all unnecessary spending from now, so we need to think about whether we all feel it's worth the sacrifice. Odds are against it going to the end at my age too. Your position was very similar! Do you mind me asking what happened in your case?

So we decided not to try for a third (I never found myself pg as you have, sorry should have been clearer). I definitely grieved this decision but now looking back it was absolutely the best thing for us. We’re out of the baby years and feel like we can now relax a bit. We just had a very nice all inclusive holiday to Turkey and there is no way we could have done that had we gone down the another baby route. You are in a different position though as yours are much older and it sounds like you’ve set them up for life. You’re clearly smart and I’m sure have given a lot of thought already to how you will manage now that you are pg to create a beautiful life for your family whatever it looks like 🫶🏽 ps our first kids were twins and this was also a factor in our decision to have more x

This doesn't help you currently, but once you are no longer pregnant, consider an IUS. You can ask for cervical anaesthesia during the fitting and they last for five years, during which you don't have to worry about getting to the GP and you have no periods.