Natural birth

[Weirdbigtoe]

What is classed as a natural birth-is it vaginal birth with no pain relief at all?
I had a vaginal birth, but requested epidural. My mum to this day still asks why, I can’t remember being massively informed at the time, but just basically not wanting any pain, is this weird? It seems incredulous to my mum. It wouldn’t have affected my Dd would it?
Where I am they don’t have gas & air, the only option was epidural or not, hence why I went for it, if they had gas and air I would have had that

Margot i wanted an unmedicated birth but there was no common sense behind it whatsoever. I don't embrace unmedicated headaches like! End of the day, it should 100% be a personal choice, free of judgement either way. The important thing is that mum and baby are healthy and happy and that's it imo.

It really is that kind of attitude here. I was met with shock when I asked for an epidural straight away and I arrived at the hospital 6cm dilated so it wasn't like I was in very early labour either.

If it is safe, effective and available, why on earth would you try and fob someone off who wants one with fucking paracetamol? Not to mention how patronising they were because it was my first. They soon shut up when they saw I was 6cm. 😂

@Hufflepods "Some women get weirdly competitive over this, it stems from the idea that a non medicated birth is better. "

I haven't seen this-but I have seen that it's MUCH easier to talk about a birth with lots of interventions than one with none. And there are women who genuinely want a birth with no interventions. No competitiveness or martyrdom. Just what they want.

@RedRobyn2021 your comment is a prime example of why seeking medical advice on the Internet is dangerous.

no one is given an induction for fun. and the drugs given through the epidural do not have any chance of 'drugging' the baby.

@Weirdbigtoe please ignore this baby being drugged by epidural comment. we don't offer inductions without good reason. we always try to avoid induction where we can. and I always reccommend patients undergoing induction, especially if it's a first baby to have an epidural. it is ridiculously painful. also a working epidural allows us to take action faster if there are complications

I hate when people say "there are no prizes for not having an epidural".
Does anyone do it for prizes? No one in my life, except DH who was there, knows what pain relief I did or didn't have while giving birth. It's not a secret, it's just literally never come up, and I can't imagine asking anyone else either.
"There are no prizes" is quite a patronising thing to say because it implies that someone's choice is purely for the recognition of others, rather than something they chose for whatever other reason. With DD1, I didn't have an epidural because I had a home birth and you can't have an epidural at home. Now you may think that a home birth is batshit, I know it's not for everyone, but a consequence of that choice is a restriction on pain relief. I chose a home birth for various reasons including logistics, plus a pretty severe mental breakdown I had during pregnancy that led to extreme agoraphobia. It certainly wasn't for a prize. I wasn't being competitive, or a martyr, and I don't think my birth was better than anyone else's. Nor do I think that that birth was better than DD2's where I was induced due to PPROM (I mean, it was better in the sense that home was a nicer environment, and my waters breaking at 34 weeks meant I'd had a few stressful weeks leading up to the induction, but I don't think it was a superior birth).

Meh, I was drugged up to the eyeballs and I'd do it again in a heartbeat. It saved my life and my DS's life.

DM prides herself on the natural births she had but take it from me, it's not a yardstick of excellent mothering by any stretch.

@SouthLondonMum22 @MargotBamborough there is like a permanent turf war between anaesthetists/doctors and midwives in the labour ward. traditionally midwives have been taught that doctors (especially anaesthetists) will mess up their lovely natural births. this is probably from a time when we used to give high dose epidurals. now with low dose epidurals there is no evidence that it increases the risk of c sections etc. also more recently qualified midwives haven't been through nursing training and this affects their approach/ability to recognise medical issues. I am not saying all units or all midwives are like this, but there is definitely a general anti epidural sentiment. some reports recently came out on units where mums and babies have been dying such as Shrewsbury hospital that have underlined these issues. hopefully things will change but given the current state of the NHS and limited number of anaesthetists around... it will take a while.

Birth your baba how ever you want. It doesn't matter how as long as you and baba are healthy. Ignore ya mam. X

I didn't give birth in the UK, I gave birth in France, where epidurals are pretty much standard. But even here the midwives are much more pro physiological labour than the doctors are. In a way that worked well for me because I had fairly hands off care from midwives during early labour and only saw a doctor once things were really ramping up. But in both my labours the anaesthetists were fantastic, so reassuring, and the epidural was perfect both times. The first time it took away the sensation of the contractions completely but I could still stand up; the second time I had a lower dose because that was what I asked for and I could still feel the contractions but only very mildly and I still got the urge to push. Weirdly, the anaesthetist who did my epidural the second time was married to the anaesthetist who did my epidural the first time. I have very fond memories of them both!

The main impact of epidural on baby is in terms of potentially prolonging the 2nd stage and the higher rate of assisted birth (although that is less of an issue with so-called 'low dose' epidurals).

When pregnant it is natural to give birth. With the most appropriate support and intervention available and necessary at the time.

What’s ‘unnatural birth’? Baby magically and painlessly manifests itself through your belly button , assisted by angelic unicorns?

Congratulations on the birth of your baby, OP.

When it comes to childbirth, I think misery loves company when it comes to some women. They seem to think that because they suffered without pain relief, the women who had epidurals/c sections were cheating.

Didn't effect my breastfeeding relationship

@Jellycats4life "They seem to think that because they suffered without pain relief, the women who had epidurals/c sections were cheating."

What a completely ridiculous and offensive thing to say!

What in the world is an "unnatural birth then." What a ridiculous term. Its either a vaginal birth or a c-section. If the first it was either with or without pain relief. None of these options are better or worse than others and none are more natural or unnatural than others.

@Weirdbigtoe

No one, and I mean NO ONE (especially people on MN). Can tell you how you should or shouldn't labour. Each labour is entirely unique and you need to do what you feel is right for you and your baby, at the time. Figure out what aspects are important to you, and make sure your birth partner (if you have one) is aware of your wishes so they can advocate for you if needs be. Other than that never has 'you do you' ever been so relevant, than in regards to a women giving birth.

My experience was entirely different to what I envisioned, I wanted to go in a birth pool, on all fours (let gravity do the work). When it got to the day, I wasn't allowed in the midwife rooms because baby had to be closely monitored. But honestly I couldn't think of anything worse than being surrounded by water, I didn't want anything touching me. And being on all fours or stood up heightened my labour pains significantly so I laboured on my back on the hospital bed. Which by all accounts is not what the 'natural birth' advocates would suggest. I didn't have medication, although I did have gas and air, which is suppose is medication. And I had an episiotomy, otherwise would've torn significantly.
This is what I mean by you have to decide at the time. Quite honestly your body will tell you what you want/need. I think that is the most natural way to give birth, being in tune and listening to your body. If it's telling you to have the epidural then bloody do it!

There are some risks with epidural but they are more to you than baby I believe. The risk is fairly low, low enough that epidurals are widely used. If she was delivered OK and you have no lasting nerve pain then its all good!
It isn't unreasonable to have whatever pain relief you need during birth

@PuggyInTheMuddle please where can I sign up for the unicorn assisted magical births?

and my oncall shifts would be spent with my feet up eating cakes stolen from the midwives office not sweating into a scrub gown while trying to locate a tiny space with a tiny needle on a moving, very distressed person. although all worth it when the drugs kick in and I see the pure relief on the mum's face.

I don't know why people think that they should have an opinion on someone using pain relief. They never ask if it's ok to get pain relief for their own root canal treatment. Why would someones choice about delivery be more open to judgement? People should stop having so much opinion on other peoples deliveries. There is no comparison, no two births feel the same. Just because one person could do without pain relief for days on end, doesn't mean that they had it more difficult than someone who needed an epidural.

And even if it was easy, there is no purpose for pain. It's just there. You don't have to be in pain if you don't want to. Women don't get a healthier child because they had pain, in school they can't tell who was born with or without pain relief. There is no use to it. You're not a better or worse person for your choice in pain relief.

My midwives described mine as natural births DT's & DS as they were both vaginal & both without pain relief.

However I watched as my poor Dsis was in a labour for 16 hours in ridiculous pain & absolutely exhausted to end up being rushed to theatre for an emergency c section & I can honestly say call it what you like I wouldn't of like to be in my sister position.

Honestly most of the bitchy comments I’ve ever had are because I had easy births. I’ve never once heard in real life anyone being bitchy or sarky to those who had csections or epidurals.

however us who did no drugs, water births and home births where mental and crazy and wanting to risk our babies lives 🥱 or we where smug hippies or whatever else people wanted to call us.

But people are being defensive here because they're getting judged for the interventions! Of course people will be defensive in that case. 'Intervention' mothers have done nothing wrong (people talking about drugged babies ffs). There is no right or wrong way to give birth as long as it's safe for mother and baby. And people should stick their beaks out of everyone elses choice.

I actually didn't feel judged by the comment about "drugged babies".

I felt sorry for that person because I think they actually believed what they were saying. It's actually terrible that a woman who is in pain might choose not to have pain relief because she has been led to believe that it is bad for her baby or that her baby will be born drugged.

I think it's really important to combat this kind of misinformation.

When I moved to France I was desperately worried about the fact that the only pain relief likely to be available to me was an epidural and very hung up about the fact that there would be no gas and air or anything else. I was absolutely convinced that the key to avoiding every intervention under the sun was to not have an epidural, and terrified when I ended up having to be induced. The reason I thought that having an epidural would make forceps, ventouse, episiotomy or a C-section much more likely is because all the English language resources I had access to, including books about hypnobirthing and thousands of women on Mumsnet repeating what they have been told, says that this is true.

It took giving birth to two babies in France, having two epidurals myself (and two incredibly different births), and looking up some of the statistics about the frequency of these interventions in France and the UK, to make me conclude that a lot of what we are told about the "risks" of epidurals appears to be total bullshit.

So no, I don't feel judged for those kinds of comments. I feel sorry for the women who believe them.

@Chickenkeev "But people are being defensive here because they're getting judged for the interventions!"

Not by anyone on the actual thread, though. The only judging going on is of the people who want unmedicated. We're martyrs, competitive, crazy women.....I feel simultaneously judged and invisible. Which is a very odd feeling to have!

*went, not want.